Powerful And Unpolished

Good day everyone. Welcome back to Powerful and Unpolished. I'm Tim Solomons. I'm your host. We have another, uh, just divine guest. Today. Um, I really have an affinity for this soul. Uh, she, she is a soul sister for me. Absolutely. And we always have just great connection and talking. Um, her name is Lisa Raebel.

Hello Lisa. Welcome to the show today. Hello Jen. Thank you so much for having me on. This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun. So, um. Typically I, I do introductions and everything for, uh, for our guests 'cause we have some really amazing guests. And what I dig about Lisa, is her. Her specialty is in like marketing, sales realm world like this.

So she gave me her bio to introduce for you so you know who we're talking to today. And so this is the bio we're gonna have some fun with, and it's called The Drunk Friend Introduction. So here we go. This is Lisa. Everyone. Everyone shut up for a second. You need to meet this absolute legend right here, Lisa fricking Raebel.

You know how some people just know marketing, uh, like they're just, they, they just do it. You know, they breathe it, they make it, uh, sense of the rest of us who are out there flailing around, lost like little puppies. She's the one that actually gets us straight, gets us organized. So she is a strategist.

Lisa is a strateg, a strategist, I can't even say it now. Lisa is a strategist, a coach, a speaker, a podcaster. Basically she's out there saving small businesses from their own bad decisions. She's written a book. Um, and speaking of which, I have her book here. Um. I thought I had it right next to me, but I don't.

But, uh, she's written books. She's hilarious. She is hilarious. I mean, we need a drink While I'm doing this introduction here, and if you're not listening to her, you're probably out here committing random acts of marketing, which she will call you out for. That's one thing that I love about her is she can call you out, but still you can hang on to a little bit of your own humility.

Oh, and while you still have a little bit of your own dignity left, she's got the whole, uh, rebel girl vibe going on. So her, her, her brand is Rebel Girl Marketing, right? Yep. Okay. And, um. So I wanna say as we kick this off, for those of you who are driving and go on your way to work, or whenever you're listening to this, raise your glass to Lisa because your business just, uh, will be better just for knowing who she is.

And what she has to offer. So thank you very much for joining us today, Lisa. You're quite welcome. I'm holding up Lisa's book. So The Rebel Girls Guide to Marketing. What made you, or what inspired you to become a rebel girl for marketing? Oh, I love this question because what happens is. Everybody who starts a business does, they get into the business and then they get busy and they, they're, they're trying to find clients.

They're trying to do all their stuff, right? And then they, and then eventually they forget why they started the business in the first place. And so, uh, when it comes to why marketing, let's just start there. I grew up as kind of as a theater kid, so my dad ran the opera house in Woodstock, Illinois in the seventies when I was just a, a wee little las and every day my mom worked at the hospital second shift.

So my brother and I would walk to the opera house from our elementary school and we hang out until dinnertime when we went home with the theater people. And I love theater. I love movies, but I love. Theater. The problem is, is that I can't memorize a line at hit my Mark, like interact with the other. I like to save my life.

I am terrible, absolutely terrible at it. But I love the, the fact that theater is storytelling and so as I was going through like all the college applications and everything, and then taking my high school classes, I really was drawn to the storytelling part of marketing. And so that's where the, the love of storytelling and the love of marketing came from is that I grew up in a, in an era where it was all about telling.

Telling somebody's story in a way that people can really connect with. It makes them laugh, makes them cry, and all those other things. So that's, wow. That's why I love marketing. I love making sure that business owners can tell their story in a way that really connects with their audience. And when you're telling your story, I mean, as you were just sharing what you were sharing, I could visualize like middle America, this little, you know, boy and girl, brother and sister going home and then going over to, you know.

Was it the church that you went to or the theater? Oh no, it was, uh, it was the Opera House in Woodstock, Illinois. Oh, opera House. So if you've ever seen Groundhog Day, that's in Woodstock, Illinois. So anyway. Wow. That's where you grew up. Okay, so are you, you pun Ani is pun Bill or whatever. Actually, when they made that movie, I wasn't living in Woodstock anymore, so.

Oh. But yeah, I bet you worked anywhere. So I was, I was born and raised. I was born in, uh, in Illinois. But like I. I've lived in Wisconsin most of my life. Oh, wow. So, yeah, I grew up in theater and I love the aspect of storytelling and how they can interpret somebody else's words in a way that you just, it draws you, it just draws you in emotionally.

That's cool. No wonder why we, uh, we connect on so many levels. So, um, sister, soul, sister here, I love theater. I mean, when I was doing theater and I had to work really hard to memorize my lines and to hit my, my points, you know, my spots and stuff. But, uh. I have to say that you are quite a, having worked with you, you are a masterful storyteller, especially when it comes to marketing.

Because marketing, you don't have a lot of, you don't have a lot of runway to work with. Like it's, you know, it needs to be effective, it needs to be concise, it needs to be impactful. It needs, yep. Right. All of those things. Let me ask you this, and this is sort of a generic question but it'll jump off into many direct directions, but what do you think are two or three of the top marketing and and or sales mistakes that entrepreneurs.

Or even, even someone in their life. 'cause this isn't just for business owners. Like we get, you know, we get listeners from all, all SEC of the community, right? And so you may have someone who has a little girl who does Girl Scout cookies, let's say, and wants to be more impactful for their. They're, I don't know if you, are they a pack?

I mean, what, what? I think they are. Is it? Yeah. It's been a minute since I've been a Girl Scout. I was like, I was like, I don't, I don't wanna call girl a group of girl scouts the wrong thing. But, um, but you know, I mean, it's a true, it's a true, it's one of That's what it is. Yes. There you go. Okay. True. It's not a pack, it's not a gaggle, it's a droop.

But I mean, it could be this, this could be relatable to anybody who is in small business, mid-size business, big business. But also the average person out there that's trying to raise money for their, uh, a nonprofit or it's how is the messaging? So I guess my question is, is what are the two or three top marketing and or sales mistakes that you see so commonly every day or that you run into?

They don't approach their messaging from the customer's perspective, the prospect's perspective, their audience's perspective. So it's more like, we're really smart and we really know what we're talking about and you should buy from us. It's, that's what a lot of marketing feels like to me. So, uh, I love to give this example, and I give this example a lot, is that I was working with a roofing consultant and it was, they couldn't tell people, 'cause they're not, they're not the roofers, you know, but they represent the clients.

Best interest when working with contractors, but they couldn't figure out how to say that. So when I talked to the business owner, the president, you know, who has the company, and I, I kept saying, well, why did you start the business? Why did you start the business? He kept giving me all this standard stuff.

Well, it's good money. It's what I've always done. It's what my education is like. All those standard answers that I always get in the beginning. And finally what he said was, you know, he had an experience when he was younger that the roof caved in. And he says, when I leave a project, I like knowing that the people inside and the business inside is safe.

So we directed all of his marketing around the fact that it's more than a roof. It keeps, it keeps your business and your people safe is more the message than simply just, you know. We help you make sure you're not getting, you know, gypped by the contractors. And so it's that, it's that what's the emotional part of the business?

Same thing I did with a hairdresser. Like she was talking about how, you know, she has this business and it's what she's always done. And so she started her own salon. But what she's really, what she's really doing is she's giving people confidence. Through their personal appearances. And so it's one of those things where it's more than just a product or service that you're providing for your customers.

What is the emotional connection to that? How are they gonna feel after they get done working with you? I think that's mistake number one, is that we don't go deeply enough into why we started the business and what we're actually selling. Great point. Great point. It's. As you're sharing. So, so I have worked with Lisa and it will continue to work with Lisa, but, um, one of the things that I've been working on with my messaging that she's helped me with is working with my clients who are hiding out in their head and missing their heart.

And so it's, it's the aspect of when you work with someone. That's just the kind of space and everything that I hold for clients that I work with. But I mean, I didn't get there without working with Lisa because, you know, I was showing up like 98% of the rest of the population going, I do this because I do this.

And you know, it's like, wow, wait a minute. What, what is it? How is it showing up for my clients? How is it affecting them? Right? And how simple is that that they, like we're living in our heads and not going to our hearts. That's something you, when you say to somebody. Anybody and everybody is either gonna understand it from a personal perspective or someone that they know is perspective.

And so it's, it's very, it's telling without telling them they're doing something wrong or they're broken. 'cause they're gonna come to that conclusion themselves, whether they need the services or not, or someone that they know needs the services or not. It's also when, when we value something, when we, when it's our expertise, when it's something that, let's say it came natural as to why we 'cause most people that I know.

They end up where they're supposed to end up, may not have been their plan when they started out in life, but you know, a lot of people, if if they're gravitating towards what, what draws them, they end up where they need to end up. And we still get caught up in this culture, in this, uh, I call it programming and conditioning, but it's like we get caught up in this culture and it helps us to become eye centered.

And we don't realize that we're eye centered, that it's like, oh, it's, it's my experience of the world. And what I love about what you're, the awareness that you're raising is so powerful is it's get the, get the centeredness off of yourself and get it onto your client. Get onto your prospect. Get it onto what's going to help them grow or identify for themselves.

'cause if they don't identify for themselves. You're, you're just blowing smoke up your own skirt, right? Yeah. And bad, bad analogy. I'm sorry, that one caught me off guard a little. Okay. So the other thing is, is, so I just say what comes in, there's, there's no filters. I don't think I have had enough caffeine yet.

Ask my, ask my wife. She's like, I might have to steal that. Okay. So. To your, to that point also, what people don't realize is that when you take the focus off of yourself in your marketing and put it on others, it's easier to talk about because nobody really likes to talk about themselves. Right. You know, here we call it Midwest nice.

Like, don't brag, don't like da da da. I, I literally have clients who have won these massive awards saying, I don't know if I should post this. I'm like, what? You know, you just earned this massive award. You've worked. So hard to earn the award. Why wouldn't you tell somebody like, well, it feels like bragging.

Yeah, it's called marketing. But at the same time, in a different vein, people don't like to go networking. 'cause they're like, well, I don't know what to say about myself. I don't like talking about myself. Then stop talking about yourself. Talk about how you help other people get the focus off of yourself and get it off the people that you get it on, the people you help.

It makes it a whole lot easier and a whole lot more fun. I'm on my soapbox. Please stay up on the soapbox because this is awesome. 'cause I'm gonna climb up there with you and say it is. This is a masterful dance that we do with ourselves. I mean, the whole purpose of powerful and polished, the whole purpose of our business, insights for choice, you know, your Rebel Girl marketing, it's really this aspect of making connections, deeper connections that have an impact.

And when you're in this dance of, I don't want to be a braggart, I don't want to, I don't wanna, you know, hype myself up, but it's like going, wait a minute. Relish what you've created. Relish the successes that are there. I mean, it, it, it's one of my biggest failing. One of the biggest darknesses I had to go through in my life was to realize that I was waiting for the world around me to value me before I valued myself.

Common, oh, it's so, it's such commonplace and all the expectations that I wasn't owning up to of like, I wanted someone else to throw me birthday parties. I wanted someone else to throw me, you know, acknowledgement. I wanted someone else to validate me for my purpose or my essence, and then I was like going, wait a minute.

I'm not getting what I need. Because I'm assuming that all these other people are going to figure it out. And then once I got clear that this was my path to walk, it's my responsibility to be on that path. That's part of that dance, that's part of that. You know, how do you like honor your awards, honor what you've created, honor what you put out into the world, and at the same time have a balance of humility.

Have some, you know, have the ability to put your focus on someone else other, rather than on yourself. That's why when you said you climbed up on the soapbox, I'm like, huh, you're, you're, you're right on the middle, main, main Street America. Mm-hmm. This message needs to be heard. Yeah. And if you think about even, you know, for, you know, Oscars or Golden Globes or something like that, you know, the actors who, who, who thank.

Their family for the support and the fact that like, they couldn't have gotten here without this person or that person or, or mentors and things like that. Those are the, those are the actors we can relate better to instead of like the, the showy ones. And so it's the same concept for, for business because, you know, I, when I teach in my sales training is that.

You have, there's basically two characters you can play. You can play the child or the adult in any conversation, any conversation. Not just sales conversations. But if you walk in saying, you know, I'm the greatest of all time and you better buy from me, you're an idiot. You put the, the buyer in the child's position, they don't like that.

But if you come in saying, please, please, please buy from me, you put yourself in the child position and you give the buyer the authority. So it's about mutual adult to adult. Mutual respect conversations with, it's, it's that whole win-win. And I, and I probably will get a, a, a little bit of backlash on this, but I do believe that every conversation and every sale, there is a win-win to that.

And because I've, I've gotten backlash on that before. It's like, no, no, no, you're in it to win it and make the most money and all the things, but long-term sustainability is about making sure that your, your customers have such a. Right shiny great experience with you. When they feel like they got lots of value out of it and didn't get screwed, they're gonna tell a lot of people.

They're gonna be your brand ambassadors. They're gonna be your best referral case. So if you're in it to win it. Then you're probably not the kind of person that I would work with. Oh, just enjoy talking with you. So two, two things to jump off with, but I'm gonna jump off to the latest one. Absolutely. If they're in it to win it, which is has become a big movement in the last decade or so in our culture in it to win it.

I can justify it. You know, it's like, this is, I call it power grabbing. When we power grab, it's like going, I'm going to prove to you I'm going to, you know, look, look what I've accomplished. It. It's, it's, it's still the eye centeredness. It's still the fact of, um, are you really being of service? Are you, you know, look what I did for these people.

Well, look what you did for yourself, first and foremost. And maybe some people benefited from it or maybe others didn't. Who knows? It's not about perfect business. It's about the aspect of are you out there? Truly standing in the value that you, that, that aligns with your, your values. I 100% have a, a value alignment aspect in everything that I, that I, when I work with clients, um, like the, the strategy, it's understanding your value alliance because sometimes you just get.

You don't know why they didn't do anything or just say anything to offend you, but you just know that they're not aligned with you. That gut feeling, that's misalignment in values, in my, in my opinion, for sure. So there's just some people I just like, could I work with them? Yeah. But there's just a, something is holding me back and I'm usually right about it when I hear from other marketing people that they did work with, that they're like kind of a pain in the keer.

So I share this in some of my speaking engagements that I do where. We all have filters. We have filters for our family. We have filters for our friend, for our colleagues, for the work that we do, the world around us. So, I mean, it's kind of, it, it it's a systematic nurturing of what our, our egos do to not only protect ourselves, but also to build ourselves up.

And when we have those filters, it's funny 'cause majority of the time we're not aware of the filters that we're engaging with. When these filters, you see it on other people. So it's sort of like that ick that you talked about. Like there's something about this person, you know, not to be judgmental, but just not feeling it.

There's something off. Right. And um, I think part of it is, is 'cause you see a filter or you experience a filter or someone's filter and it doesn't align with either what they say their values are or maybe with what your values are. And so it's that aspect of. Who are we in a genuine relationship to our values, and how are we actually embodying that when we're putting it out into the world?

Yes, 100%. And that's, it goes the same thing for like when you, when you're hiring somebody for your team, you wanna make sure that they. It's not just about their, their abilities to do the job. It's about are they gonna, are they gonna gel with the culture and all those other types of situations? You know, I, I, there's just too many times where I have friends who work for very large, you know, you.

Fortune 500 companies and they hire a new CEO and they were hired because they can turn the business around and make more profit, which is absolutely positively necessary, but they completely destroyed the culture. And, and so that's happening right now with one of my friends, and he's just like, I, I was gonna retire in two years, but I might retire earlier because I just, I can't handle it any longer because the culture is completely destroyed.

And so. It's you, we have to stop looking at the, the numbers only. Yes, the numbers are important. I'm not saying their numbers are not important. The data and making sure your profit margins are there and all the other things. But if the whole point of retention, the reason that we're thinking that this, this new generation of, of employees is, is fickle, is because they're not gonna stand for the.

Crap that we have been dishing out for decades in businesses. You know, you get a paycheck, so you should be able to do your job. That mentality is gotta be out the window soon because the people who, perfect example, I just met a gentleman who is a, has a financial planning, a small financial planning company, but he does it.

He's doing it right. Each financial planner has a limit of how many, how many people that they can have. And every month, every single month, they do some kind of community project. And he builds everything on the culture of community, not on the culture of let's make a whole bunch of money. 'cause we're financial planners.

It's more like, what can we do? And it's, and it's brilliant because he has massive loyalty and very little turnover in his business. So he gets people that align. Align the values. 'cause values align with the values. Exactly. And so it's, it's the aspect of like, he's realized that this whole mentality of let's make a bunch of money and then go home and not care about the fact that, you know, someone's having a bad day.

You know, it just, when I was with the marketing in marketing and sales for a leadership development company, it was amazing how many stories we heard about people who were gonna get fired until, you know, they stepped in and said, and just asked the question, you know, you've changed what's going on. How their personal lives are completely falling apart, like mothers with cancer or like kids who are sick or you know, and they're still trying to come to work every day, but they're exhausted 'cause they're not getting the sleep because their, something in their personal life is falling apart.

But it affects their, their attitude at work because, but nobody asks the question of like, are you okay? And what modifications can we make this, I just remember one other story that I just really hit me is that they had this great, this guy who was working, uh, but he was always 15 minutes late. And it was a, it was a line job in a, in a plant.

So it was very important to be on time and they were gonna fire him. They, they didn't want to, 'cause he was such a great worker, but he says, why are you always 15 minutes late? He says, well, you know, my work, my wife works at this time and I have to drop my son off at school and things like that. So once they found out why he was always 15 minutes late, they adjusted his position to allow for him to do it.

And they kept him as an employee, but instead of just. Making the assumption of you're always late, so you're a bad employee, so I'm gonna fire you. Like what's the, what's the, what's behind it? Because we're all freaking humans. I, God, I wish people would remember that. And I think with all of this AI stuff going on, especially in marketing, that if we, if we forget the human side of it, I don't believe that AI is gonna take everybody's job.

I don't believe all of those kinds of things, because there still needs to be a human side of the things that AI produces. Okay. Different soapbox. And there's, there's still a lot of heavy lifting that humans, it's so easy to find the next reason or justification for why things are wrong and stuff like this.

And it's like going, you know what, no matter what's out there in the world, until you start looking in the mirror saying, what is it that I wanna create in my world, which is my space, which I actually have a real influence over. You, you, you're always gonna default to that, that excuse, that filter, that justification, um, you know.

Everything we're talking about, it's like culture is massive. Culture is is essence of a, a business, essence of a community, essence of you can just see it. I mean, we could go back historically into corporations that really emphasized, uh, awareness around culture. Coca-Cola back in the seventies, you know, they, they, they had their big old unifying song commercial, you know, I like to teach the world sing.

Right? Which was really about coming together. Apple, uh, computer Macintosh was really this, you know, community. It was like, uh, it was this kind of standout, but it was really about the culture. And, um, you know, people will argue that it's like, is it a better product? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not about the product, it's about the culture.

They wanna be a part of the culture. Um, and then when you get the, and they only compete against themselves. Yes. And I love that. It's like, I'm not gonna compete against my competitors because I wanna make a better product than I made yesterday. I. And they can do what they're gonna do. But I'm gonna, I'm just gonna keep improving what we're, what we're doing.

I'd like that too. But then what it does is it leads us, uh, uh, to connect the points or the dots of what we've been talking about. It leads us when you get those people who are in it to win it. I'm a leader. Look at my results. Yeah, oftentimes you're the cancer to the culture. You're the one that comes in because you have, you have no leadership skills or poor leadership skills.

I, I see it all the time where it's, you know, somebody's a leader, somebody's they're, they're even revered. But the problem is, is no one's looking at what's it gonna be in three years, five years, 10 years down the road. This person didn't lead. To empower further results. They, they were so caught up in immediate gratification that their leadership wasn't leadership.

I call it. It became management. It became, you're a boss. You wanted to be a boss, you wanted to be revered for your results. And it's like you make a difference when you actually understand the culture you're in and enhance who else is invested in that culture. Because one of the, one of the hills that I will die on is the fact that every role touches revenue in your company.

And you just have to be able to identify and define and then educate your team on how that, on, how that helps. Perfect example for that was, I had a a, a photography company who, um, this huge, huge projects, um, and what they were doing is they. They were so siloed in all of their different departments, they weren't kind of talking to each other.

And so sales wasn't telling customer service what was going on in customer service. So when they got phone calls, they didn't even know that a sale was going on with a code. And you know, and then sales would go out, and I'm not, I'm not blaming sales on all this stuff, but like sales would go out and sell something, but wouldn't tell production that it was happening.

So then they'd have to bump up who they had in production to be able to get the orders out. You know what I mean? So it's that whole aspect of, you know, that whole stay in your lane. Mentality, and this is how we've always done it mentality. I would like to just literally take a, a sledgehammer to those two con mindset concepts because that's not how business is going to, is going to win and stay.

It's not sustainable with what you're talking about there. Well, that's not my responsibility. Right. And it's like, but it is, it's, it's like, that's why when you, when you know culture, you have. These businesses where whether it's sales, whether it's marketing, whether it's the janitorial, you know, we wanna make sure that we are creating a space that creates value for those who are that.

That's why I agree. Absolutely agree. That hill that you want to die on. Oh yeah. The revenue, you know, everything touches revenue. It does. And when you have people who understand or, or cross reference, it's like, oh, you know. If I don't inform production, but I'm, I'm way out selling what they're able to do.

I'm setting not only them, but I'm setting us up for failure. Not the whole company. Up for failure. Yeah. Yeah. The reputation thing. People aren't gonna get what they want, when they want it or when it was promised. And you know, there was so busy about making their numbers and increasing their revenue.

They weren't thinking about growing strategically. They just wanted to grow percentage wise. Like we wanna make sure that we grow this much every single year. Okay. But did you also plan for all the ripple effect of what that growth is going to do to your organization? Well, and some, sometimes the growth is, as you said, that the, the image that came to my head is sometimes the growth is inner growth.

It's like this, if you think of a human body and it's like, maybe I'm acting like Superman and I'm out here and I can do all this stuff, but I'm really a human being. I'm not a superhero. Right? And I'm out here doing everything. If I'm doing everything and all my energy's going out and I'm not taking care of my body, when's the heart attack gonna come?

When's the mental breakdown gonna come? Yeah. I mean, it's like, and the fact that leaders. Don't understand com community or culture that it's like sometimes the biggest growth you can have is the fact that you retained your, your workforce that is still invested in what you are doing as a collective, and how great would it be if you had less retention, same amount of work, but higher profit margins.

So you are making more money, not doing any additional work. But you're doing it so productively with the culture that you have, your profit margins increase, like things don't get delayed and you don't have to do rebates and you don't have to like, you know, give away free stuff to keep a customer. Like all of that stuff is, is rippled effect into, you know, the revenue growth strategists that I help people understand because the.

Growth for growth's sake is not strategic or sustainable. And so it's that aspect of it. And here's the, here's the thing that I see a lot. My two biggest barriers to any prospect that I'm talking to are, one, I've worked with marketing people before. They just take my money. They don't give me results.

Well, that's your fault and it's their fault. Like you, you're both at fault because you're the, you didn't understand what they needed to know and they didn't ask the right questions. So that's one. The second biggest one that I always find is that they're more worried about. Getting new customers than they are about upselling to the existing customers that know, like, and trust you.

Because the statistic, now, this is a few years old, but the statistic is, is that existing customers buy 67% more than a new customer does. So they already know, like, and trust you. The sales cycle's gonna be super short 'cause they already, they already know they're gonna buy from you. But the point is, is that they don't.

They don't try to sell to existing customers because they're always trying to get those new logos or those new customers in. It's all about the new customers, but like, what if you could have a higher profit margin by selling to people who already buy from you? And that's a strategy that people really overlook.

And so when you asked me some the question earlier about what are some of the common mistakes, I would say that's probably another very common mistake that businesses have is they don't look to existing customers to increase profit margins. They're always looking for the new logo who. Buy less and it costs more money to get them to get the new business in the door.

Yeah. Thank you for that. It's, uh, you're welcome. I've actually heard that before, um, in a different way, which is, this was years and years and years ago, but it was, uh, around, um, all the money and effort that's put into getting new clients versus retaining your existing clients and taking care of them.

Right. And it goes back to what you just said, you know, like, and trust. They know, like, and trust you. They're there, but it is so amazing how. We're not just talking small business, we're talking big mega cult corporations that, you know, maybe this is one of their pitfalls is they're not very good at retaining their customers.

Mm-hmm. Right? They put out, I call it, um, hot air, if you will. They put out this image that we still care about you. We still, you know, I mean, I was with, uh, a phone company. I was with Verizon for like 18 years and it seemed like every year they got more and more stingy on if I had an issue or something like this, they would nickel and dime me and I was like going, I've been with you for 18 years.

Mm-hmm. And for the last four years, or to five years each year, I've gotten more and more disgruntled because it's like somebody in there is doing their thing and I'm like going, oh, so the fact that you care about me is because you think, you say it. I should feel it. Well, I wasn't feeling it, and so I went to a different company and um, it was just one of those things where it was like, I really enjoyed the reliability and what I was getting as far as general service and stuff like this, but it was like when things started popping up that I'd no longer, I had to fight more for I, you know, and this nine outta 10 times.

It was really silly stuff, but it was like they didn't, what? It goes back to the fact that, you know. New customers get a new phone. Well, I've been with you for 17 years. Where's my new phone? Oh yeah. You know, it's that kind of thing. Or this is another one that really gets me. So I'll buy a ticket for an event and pay like the price, but then as it gets closer and they just still wanna sell seats, they discount the ticket.

For the people who are buying last minute, and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I paid full price for that ticket. Don't discount the ticket a couple of days before the event just 'cause you need to fill a couple of seats. And then I'm the one getting screwed because I bought my ticket ahead of time.

You know, it's, it's things like that that companies do that don't realize the ripple effect of how. It affects the existing customers now? No, like trust was actually coined in the nineties, um, by a guy named Bob Berg, and he's got a few more things. I still follow, I still follow what he does. Um, but when people ask me what's the difference between marketing and sales is first of all, it all, it's all in one alignment.

It's all one seamless line. The know is people need, need to know you exist. The like is they have to like what you say and what you sell. And that's marketing. And then from like to trust, that's sales. And so that's why it has to be one seamless message in one seamless alignment. And actually it was interesting, I just did a, a, a talk the other day about, um, identifying your ideal customer.

And the statistic that I, this is recent, like 2025 statistic that I found is that 48% of um, marketers, that's not even marketing people, but it's also like business owners who do their marketing kind of a thing. People who market a product. Whether you're a marketing person or not. Only 48% of them could identify specifically their ideal customer, which means more than half of us are out there just guessing who our ideal customer is.

And then the other statistic that goes along with the know, like, trust is that like, uh, they found that. When sales and marketing are aligned in their, in their, in, how they talk and the flow and like the customer experience and everything, they're 89% more effective and have a get this 171% to higher chance to sell more than what they.

Are asking to sell. Oh wow. And so like you increase your odds by 171%, and this is from Insight um, abm.com and to sell more than what you're asking them to buy. If your sales and marketing is aligned in, the messaging is all aligned. I mean, those are some pretty. Pretty high numbers. So it's one of those things where people, when they ask me what specifically that I do strategy wise, it's rebel girl marketing.

But I, but I also do sales and I also do customer, you know, the customer experience. And I also do like internal team alignment. And there's just so much more that I do than just simply marketing. But people understand the word marketing. So, and that, and that's what it is, is people, um. Because one of the questions I had actually for you is, isn't marketing and sales its own language, isn't it?

You know, its own, and, and I, I say this to you, you, because you do marketing and sales and so much more, but to me it's like, uh, having, having the work that I've done for so long, it's religion is a language, politics is a language. Uh, culture is a language. Um, everything is a language because we've got nonverbal, we've got verbal, we've got all this, uh, awareness.

So when you're speaking marketing and sales and success versus failure, what do you think the language, 'cause what you just shared, the, the one thing that came out to me was this clarity is power. Hmm. And when I've worked with you. You helped get me, got me, because I was, I'm definitely, and I still trip over that every once in a while I'm out there taking care of, you know, my ideal client.

But I, I know my ideal client way more than I ever have before, but I'm also still learning that I even have even more dialed in, you know, ideal clients that I work with. Yeah. And, um, but it's that clarity. And so in the language of marketing and sales, what do you think? Adds to fluidness of that awareness of that language.

Well, one, understanding fully the problem that you solve. And once you fully understand that problem, you solve, solution and provide gap, you fill whatever you wanna call it, understanding how they feel before and how they feel after is that clarity. Is that I feel this way, which is usually negative, and then I worked with you and now I feel positive.

And so understanding that, but the other thing about that is that the clarity that you're talking about. Actually prevents a lot of sales. So, because people don't fear price as much as they fear confusion. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so if they can't, say that one more time. People don't fear price as much as they fear confusion.

So if they don't clearly understand how you're gonna help, it doesn't matter what your price point is, they're not gonna buy from you. And so that clarity you're talking about, not only just who your ideal customer is, but how you help and how you, how you help that customer, how they're gonna feel after they work for you.

Um, that's, that's the part that's gonna, that's the part that's gonna sell. So having it being their own language. Yes. And, um, marketing and sales need to have the same, say the same thing. They need to be able to say the same exact message. I can't tell you how many times I saw marketing and then I talked to a sales person.

It was a completely different messaging and it was, and it, that's more confusion, right? So it didn't matter what the price was of what I was trying to buy. I didn't trust the company because trust, which is why it's the last word, and no, like trust is the absolute, positively most important thing for you to make a higher profit margin.

They have to be able to trust you and they're not gonna trust you if they don't understand how you're gonna help. Because what they really wanna know is, are you gonna solve my problem in the timeframe I need it solved within the budget that I have to solve it? If you can answer those three questions in your marketing, that's golden.

But make sure sales is saying the same thing. How's that? I like that. I actually almost wanted to have you say it again because I like the three points if they know. What problem you're gonna solve that they, well, no, let me rephrase that. They, they know that you can solve the problem. If they can do it in the timeframe in which they need it done and within a budget that they have for you to do it.

That's what they need to know. That's your marketing and sales process. That's what every department should know and understand, and every role in your organization needs to embody. And so when it comes to like, I'm just wanna beat my customer and I just wanna make a lot of money, and you don't answer those three questions, it doesn't matter how much money you spend on marketing, it does not matter how many times you have a prospect meeting.

If they're not clear on the fact that you can help, they're probably not gonna buy from you. And that's where I think, you know, we run in circles with small, a lot of small business owners and small business owners struggle with that. They struggle with that kind of. Clarity that, that kind of awareness. I believe it's because, not because I've never been taught Right.

I mean, when you started your business, you and your background, did you understand what it would be like to have to like do invoices and p and ls and like expense reports and taxes and all the other stuff that we have to do? By the way, math is not my love language. Um, but for me it's, that's the point.

That's the reason I have a job. That's the reason that people hire me is they're saying, if you could just teach me to understand and how to think like a marketer for my own business. I can go and do the work and I can go and do the things, but I, you first have to be taught, and it's not your fault that you don't understand.

You've just never been, you've just never been taught. And I compare this, okay, I'm a big, big Bang Theory fan, like back in the day when that show was on, and I love Sheldon's ex talking about how, you know. When he was gonna go rock climbing with, can't think of the character's name, but so he, what he did is he researched it, he watched a bunch of YouTube videos and thought, alright, I can rock climb.

But he didn't realize once he got to the top and saw how far away that he was gonna, he was gonna pass out on this like rock climbing thing. And it's, and it's funny, I like that. And I like that comparison because it's, we can read all the articles we want, we can watch a whole bunch of YouTubes on how marketing works and how sales works and all the things.

But unless you understand how it applies specifically to your products, your service, your people, your, your ideal clients and things like that, you can read as, as much as you want. It's not gonna be as effective. And here's the, here's the point that, the other point that I really have a, that lot of people say is, I, I've already spent the money and it's not working, okay?

I'm not asking you to spend more money on tools and tactics and all the other things I'm asking you to trust me, to help you make sure it works properly. Because people always think that when it comes to marketing consultants, I'm gonna ask you to spend more money. I'm not asking you to spend more money on tools and tactics and things like that.

I'm just gonna teach you how to use it properly so it works in alignment with your entire organization. And I want to, I want to. Jump on that because that's one of my hills is I think one of the pitfalls that exists in our culture, not not just American culture, but the world, but especially American culture, is this, is we sell ourselves, we're, we're such a consumer minded culture.

That we think that spending money is buying results. Yes, it is so, such a lie that we tell ourselves. It's a responsibility that we put on professionals and other, it's like your results are your own. That's why in my world, it's, I get people into the real life application of things. Right? It's like going, you wanna do this work?

First of all, you gotta stop BS in yourself. It's like, just 'cause you ba you pay someone to help guide you and teach you and mentor you, doesn't mean that they're doing the work for you. So if you wanna hire someone to do the work for you, then go out and pay for that. But is it still in alignment with who you are and what you're here to do?

You know, I mean, there's so many and so this is a, a pitfall in our culture, whereas it's like, you know what? I spent this money, I bought this money, and I think a lot of people. Lose a lot of value. They throw a lot of money away because they assume or mis assume that if that's word but mis assume that um, it is today.

Yeah. That, well, I spent this money, I spent this effort, I spent this time, but I didn't get the results. It's like going, but did you grow yourself enough to change how you showed up so that it could affect the outcome? If you aren't involved, engaged in the process, go look in the mirror. Go look in the mirror, because that's the main reason why you didn't achieve those results.

And I'll tell you, I have to, I have to deal with that constantly. It's a big pill to swallow. Nobody wants to it. No, I want to, I want to pat myself on the back because look what what I accomplished. And it doesn't mean that some people aren't successful. They, they pay for it. Things turn out nice. It's great.

In the short term. In the short term, but, but it's really being aware of how are you? How are you spending the money? How are you engaging in, what are the assumptions you're making about it? It's a huge pitfall. Um, I want to jump back. We're going on on time. We're gonna have to, uh, we may have to have you back at another time 'cause we can just keep going.

But I do wanna jump, I wanna, I wanna wrap up on this 'cause you brought this up. Okay. Earlier, so you were talking about the award show for like the Oscars or, you know, golden Globes, all that kinda stuff. And I just really wanna highlight it that. The fact that you brought that up and I'm, I'm, these award shows are the, the, the pinnacle of marketing, the pinnacle of marketing and sales.

Right. But especially marketing, because here's an industry that puts out creativity products, and then they. Promote these series of awards events, putting one movie, certain actors against each other, they're competing, who's gonna be the winner? And it's like, this isn't competition. How can you compete with somebody?

Like how can one actress compete with six other actresses when they're not on the same set? They're not in the same, you know, it's like the fact that they market this as a competition, and a lot of people don't realize. This awareness, they don't realize this as a culture. It's like going, this is to build up more awareness and marketing around these movies, around the production companies around.

I mean, it, it is a very masterful and it's been around for, what, a hundred some years or whatever, close to a hundred years. Yeah. I actually don't watch those shows, but yes, probably to sit here and sell it to the, to the public and, you know, it, it, it brings in billions if not trillions of dollars. Over the years with the gowns, the jewelry, the, the production value of the awards show themselves.

It's all marketing and they're selling it to the culture and the culture eats it up as if it's a competition and somebody won. And it's like, virtually most competition is you have people going in a, in a car race, you know they're going against each other or they're on a field and they're going against each other.

What are your thoughts around, around, as I'm pontificating here, what you thought? So there's a book by Simon Sinek called The Infinite Game. It is a brilliant book, um, for many, many reasons. And what he talks about is that we're playing, like you had said, we're playing this game. We've said it a couple of times today, and it's, the thing is, is that nobody wins at business.

You might win. You know, you might beat somebody in a competition for a client, but nobody technically wins at business because a game is, is there's a beginning, a middle, and an end, and there's a finite rules and there's a finite aspect of the person who scores the most points or whatever. Is the winner, right?

There's a defined what win and what doesn't win. There's no winning at life. There's no winning at business. There's no like winning at um, at like the award ceremonies and things like that. Especially, especially in Hollywood. It's a big publicity stunt. They all have PR people who are submitting things and giving gifts and doing all the, all the politics.

It's more like politics than it is about that, but. I don't know enough about Hollywood to pick on Hollywood, but at the same time, this book, the Infinite Game, if I'm gonna give you one recommendation based on the topic that we're talking about today, that's the book I would recommend because it clearly defines the game that you're playing and there's no winning or losing.

You're not gonna win at life or lose at life. It's all about. It's all about what you put into it, all the things we talked about. It's about culture and it's about leadership and it's about doing the work yourself. Believe me, over the years I have done lots of work on myself. I have, you know, done the life coaches and gone to the, gone to the retreats and because we're, nobody's broken, but we all have things in our past that we can overcome.

And so the only person I compete is with myself from yesterday. And did, was I the person I wanted to be yesterday or did I become somebody I wasn't because of what? I was hungry, I was stressed, I was tired, I was, you know, whatever the, the internal influence influences are. And so I love that book because it really helps you stop competing.

With other people and really look inside yourself to see how am I doing in my own personal life and how am I influencing the people that I love around me or the people I work with, or something like that. So I do believe that. That the, there's a lot of fake competition out there, and it's causing more stress in our lives than we really need it to be.

So The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek is a, is a book I would highly recommend because it's, it's, it's very simplistically explains what all the things you were just talking about. I love that you brought that up. Thank you for bringing that up. It is, uh, I haven't read the book, but I did see, um, an interview of him talking about it.

And a, a couple of them on YouTube. So it's like, it's, it's exceptional information and yeah. Actually I am gonna go get the book now because I, I, I have watched the, the videos a few different times and he's, he's so spot on. I love Simon Sinek and he talks about his own failures and his own like. His own demons inside his head and his own struggles and his own, all of the things, you know, 'cause the stuff that we, we put out there to the point of this entire topic of your, of your, of your podcast about being unpolished is that what we put out there is only the polished stuff, but there's a whole bunch of unpolished stuff that got us to where we need to be.

And that's why I really like the, the title of the podcast. It really, 'cause all of us are extremely unpolished and we need to show that to people every once in a while. Because it's okay. Absolutely. And that's really, thank you. I'm so, thank you for sharing that. Uh, it's, that's why I named it what I named it.

'cause it's like, the truth is, is we're all. We're all in development, we're all in, uh, expansion and growth and possibility and you know, it's, it opens up the door for us so much as, you know, divine souls to be able to kind. I love it, man. We can keep going on. I, I, I just love this. But we're, I, we're really pushing time here, so I am going to at least pause this for right now 'cause I, I guarantee I will have you back on another show if you're up for it.

Yeah, of course. Um, 'cause these are awesome and, uh, I just want to thank those who are listening out there. If this is something that you really found useful or entertaining or insightful. I, I, in the past I've talked about how many times we've said something, maybe there's a college drinking game involved in this, you know, since we did your drunk introduction.

But, but, um, if you've liked this show, please, uh, hit the, like, share it with friend. Uh, check us out. We'll keep, you know, putting out this content so that you honor who you are. On your path every day. And until next time, we wish you all the best and, um, make it a great week. Cheers.