Powerful And Unpolished

Good day everyone. It's Tim Salmans here at Powerful. And unpolished. Sorry, I just got a knot in my throat. Tim Solomon's here at Powerful and Unpolished. We have a wonderful guest today. I met this divine soul within the last month and, Quick shout out, to our lovely friend, Dr. Roz, introduced us.

So I, I really appreciate you, Roz. but our guest today is Tanja Horan, and thank you so much for being here and taking the time today. Tanja. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for our conversation together. Yes, this will, I'm looking forward to this. but, the reason why I wanted to invite Tanja, as when I have guests on, we, we do business with a slice of life or more like life with a slice of business is really how we do it.

we're here to learn about Tanja. We're here to learn about her business, but more importantly, who she is in this world and, why she brings what she brings, and how it relates to our current world. some thoughts there too as well. So Tanja, I want to first of all say her, business is Tacosa 360, I pronounced that correct?

That is correct. Okay. And so tell me a little bit about, let's, at least jump off here. Tell me a little bit about what is Tacosa 360? So Tacosa 360 is, an opportunity that actually empowers nonprofits I and is here to be able to help them reach their full capacity, by allowing them to build the skillset sets and the needs that they need for sustainability.

it's, I hadn't expected to be in this space. but now, now that I'm there, statistically 30% of all nonprofits will cease existence in 10 years. which is an incredible, if you stop to think about it, statistic. And I'm now on a path. What I get excited about is to change that. How do we change that?

How do we, all the work that is being done in the world, whatever is passionate, and needed, how do we build sustainability so we can continue it and we can scale it? Wow. That's, I wanna say it's a noble, it's a heartfelt, especially, a lot of these.

These people didn't start out saying, Hey, this is, what I'm gonna do. And then that was the call that life brought to them, right? Yes. so we're gonna get, I, wanna explore your catalyst, what transformed you, but let's go back to. Earlier, earlier version, 1.0 Tanja, who, was 1.0 Tanja at that time, 1.0 Tanja, if you will, was in a very different space.

I actually spent 20 plus years in the software industry. As a product leader, working, with startups all the way to larger multinationals, building, both domestic and international teams. So very centered on product, get to market. Let's go to, margin, all of the things that you would typically think about, in, in that realm.

and I loved it. I loved, Traveling overseas, working in that international and learning about all of the different cultures. and I bring that, those learnings into the work that I do now. just a different nuance, and, So when I work with nonprofits, 'cause I work on the, business side of them, in, how do I build the capacity for them, I'm really taking all of my for-profit experience.

Translating and bridging the gap and bringing it to a nonprofit sector so that they can work, and be the business that they are and reach their full potential. and so I bridged in that product umbrella. It's a lot, from strategy and messaging and launching, and how do we earn revenue as well?

Oh. I just, I wanna highlight something here for our listeners, and, this is a key element and, you just embody it so much so well, is you have this experience, you have this information, you have these connections, you have this skill base. And the reason why I wanna share this with our listeners is, I, say it in a num, another number of other shades.

Which is a lot of times when I'm working with clients, they will be like, this is my industry. This is, this is what my resume is. and you have a whole skill base that functions in and outside of that industry. You're not, the only way you're pigeonholed is because you put yourself there or you allow other people to put you there.

And you know what you're, what I'm hearing you say is. You had this skill base, you know how to get something, from concept into physical, form and application and guide the, success and development and, life path of whatever this thing is, right? And so to be able to have that skill and realize that it crosses borders and it cross, it's very useful.

That's, amazing. So I guess here's, the moment then. So what was the catalyst that went from, 1.0 Tanja to, 11.1 Tanja? so that's really, it. it's been an interesting journey because it's not what I expected. they say 2020 is hindsight is, great. And if I start to look at the pathway, and take that reflection moment, I may have ended seen it, but that's been a reflection moment where I was and where I am now.

I actually was working for a startup. I had been brought into a startup. I was in the ai, space, ML space, and to build, Greenfield, the pro product management, component, right? I was there to build, I'm a builder by nature. So it was, very exciting for me to be there, and, wear the hats and to help build that.

and as things go, not all startups. Pan out the way that they're meant to be. which is just a normal cycle. It's not a comment on any particular organization. it just happens. And I came to a crossroads and I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do next? And with that I said, okay, you know what?

I have these skill sets as you had mentioned. What am I going to do? I know I like to build that part I at least figured out, and what am I gonna do with it? And so I actually started, when I started the company, I was for-profit focused. I had been pitching our mentoring, startups in pitching and messaging and product management.

I said, you know what, I'm gonna focus and be a fractional chief product officer, similar to what you will see as a fractional CFO. for small to mid-sized businesses, to grow. And that's where I started. And then along that journey, and this is the part I didn't expect, I had an opportunity to work, with a nonprofit.

they're in the educational space and they had an earned revenue component. So one thing about nonprofits to understand, for those not familiar with it, we have traditional philanthropy, right? Which is individual giving and grants. Those type of donations. And then nonprofits can also earn revenue. And I came to help them, scale and build, their revenue.

For me personally, it was such an interest in education as well. really fulfilling to be able to, take work with them, because they didn't have the background to be able to scale. And, if I can tell the story, 'cause this is really about sustainability. About really when it hit me, what it was, I had worked with them on defining, who is the ideal person we were gonna talk with, those personas, and when we were going through assets and I would be mentoring, and so I listened to what they say and then I would prompt them.

I'm like, does George, does he care? Because we had defined who we were talking to, and so I would prompt them to get them to think about, their audience. And we were sitting in a meeting and they were going over an item. And at that time it's literally at the tip of my tongue, tip of my tongue to go impro.

And I am just waiting for them to take a breath. And, at that moment I'm about to speak. They stopped themselves. They stopped themselves and sat and asked Does George care? And at. I knew that all the work that I had been doing with them had landed and they could sustain it because now it was intrinsic.

And that became an opportunity for me to stop and think, what about what am I doing? What am I really doing about sustainability? It's about building the capacity so that they can move it, without me. And so that started a catalyst in saying, okay, where should I be working? Should I be in the for-profit sector or can I take those skills that I had, and bridge the gap and have a different type of impact that I would have never probably had the courage to do, and change and be excited about what I was doing every day.

and being able to help people, and that was the first catalyst. I also worked on another project, to bring cancer care for the uninsured, in central Texas and launch it from their grassroots vision to launch the program. And really meaningful for me. my mother at the time had stage four cancer, breast cancer, and that's where the program was starting.

And so it was both a personal opportunity to honor her and also to be able to help those that just didn't have the resources right. and the experience to be able to navigate that path. And I said, Hey. Again, it was another sign, if you will, and a, an opportunity. And it came to me and I said, and I sat on this idea and I will tell you it was a Jordy 'cause I sat on it for two years and, still working and still working in the space.

but between for-profit and a nonprofit. And then it, came to me and said, you know what? I should just do it. I should just do it. I will niche down. I will focus and I'm also at a point and stage that I believe I should just do what I love every day. Absolutely. And I can help them succeed.

Yes. and it's, your passion is palpable. Your, your wisdom. So a number of the things that you just shared, that's why.

In my world, I don't believe in coincidences. Life is always talking to us. Always. Like you said, you sat on it for two years. That's actually not too bad. There are probably some people that may be listening to this podcast right now that have been sitting on something for decades that they're just not listening to.

'cause they don't believe in the possibility they're not open to it, whatever that case is. And to have somebody who you know like yourself. Who has the, not only the wherewithal, but, maybe the aptitude to step in or lean into the uncomfortable, because our egos wanna keep us safe, right?

So it keeps us, and so to have somebody who can take the lead, but have us come along, which is such a gift that you have, because it's not very common in our culture. It's there, more people talk about what to do rather than actually leaning in and getting it done. And I, at least that's my experience.

What are your thoughts? I, agree with you. I, think, and, it takes, a different type of mindset and approach enabled to do that. it's interesting, Sandra Yancy, who I, think you know as well, she is, a thought that she shares, always comes to mind, is I have to make sure that I see it correctly.

courage is not the, result, a confidence. It's actually the reverse. You build confidence by having the courage to step in. You have curry, you have the confidence and you build it sometimes by stumbling, and that's okay. And that's the part I think we have an opportunity to accept. It's probably one of the hardest, and each one of those stumbles, it's just one step closer.

To what we're trying to achieve, whatever that is. And that can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. And I think that's another where opportunity where we have, to look at it a little bit differently, look about success differently by whose metrics? Who's defining it? I'm reading a book right now, Joden Wooden On Leadership.

Oh, love it. And, it's, an amazing book. And, one of the key things he shares in there, to try to have you think about it a little bit differently is success. If you have done your best effort, if you have gone out there and you have tried to reach your potential, that is success.

It's not by money, it's not by someone else's standards that is out there, that you can define that success. And as long as you know that you've done what you've done and you've tried, even if you stumbled, then your success because to your point in question or, you took the action, you had the courage to go and take that action.

I brought John Wooden into the conversation. for those of the listeners out there that haven't crossed paths with John Wooden's philosophy. So coaching has become quite a robust, I'll be generous, a robust industry in the last. 10, 15 years, 20 years. But coaching's always been around. I'm just gonna, sorry, I'm gonna pontificate for a moment here, but coaching's al always been around.

the truth of the matter is, it's part of teaching. You teach the information and then you coach as the application hopefully is being applied. John Wooden being the, basketball coach icon that he, he was, He had a wisdom. some people would call it a philosophy, but really it was a wisdom that he just had from working with so many different, athletes and, at high level.

And this guy just, he, would, take the, Expectations and the, conditioning that society has around it. And he would just, in a nutshell, put it into that wisdom that was and there, there are, some wonderful coaches like that. There's a, I'll just share with you there, there's a coach.

You remember Tom Landry, who used to be the coach, the Dallas Cowboys? when I was young, I heard that. Now, I don't know if it was officially attributed to him, but I had heard that he had said that, as a coach, I'm here to tell you what you don't wanna hear and show you what you don't wanna see, so that you could be everything you ever wanted to be and That's more than just, strategy and plays and execution. There's a, whole nother level, which is why you do the work you do. You have the passion that you have. Why we, why I have this podcast, why I actually have my business. It's really about, there's so much doing in the world.

Let's start getting more of the beingness, the, application. I'm done pontificating now. you, said some wonderful things there and there are, some other great coaches, Phil Jackson's a phenom. just such, wisdom there. but there's, coaches around us all around.

like you said, you talked about the stumble. nobody wants to go and stumble. Nobody wants to deal with that, but it is part of life's feedback that can grow you. It's, how you respond, right? What's come up for you? I, yes, it's, it is how you respond. and I like to think of it sometimes.

It's what you need to hear. It's not what you want. I. And there's a distinct difference, and of the coaches that you, just mentioned too, I think we all need to realize, if you will read their biographies or the autobiographies or their memoirs or learn about their history, they stumble too, what they're sharing with you or the learnings of what it meant so that they can help others.

and it's, I think it's a phenomenal opportunity we have if we are willing to give and give first. because I think that's also one of the lessons over, you asked me about 1.0 early on, and where I am right now in that transition. is that or that evolution is, I would've told you early on in my career, that I held things very close to the best.

I was very protective, I for a lot of different reasons, and that's probably true. I, and it's been an evolution for me to say, you know what? Give it away. Share it. and help. I didn't need to be as protective, for my sake, for where I was. But I also think that comes from a realization, that definition of success, let's redefine it.

Absolutely. And be able to help those other people. when I was working with a incubator in Texas, One of those entrepreneurial incubators. we used to say the way that we did, networking and we helped each other as a community. Everybody has something to give in a community. Even if you're a student, you have something to give.

You have knowledge and you one hour of your experience, one hour of just having a conversation like we are today. One hour can save someone else, thousands. Whether that's in time or in energy, and that's an incredible gift and an opportunity to give. I know that I've benefited from it from people that have been so open to be able to share with me and I'll go, huh, maybe I shouldn't have done that.

Or, Hey, that's a great idea. I should try to incorporate that. And so I think we have those gifts that we can also share, and give to each other. I wholeheartedly agree with that. My wife and I, we, practice what I call, or a lot of people call the, universal law of circulation, right?

The, there's, circulation constantly taking place in this planet, right? And the question is, how are you engaged in participating with it? is it construc? Is. if we go deeper into the work I do, it's like we start getting into the ego and the identity and, the, pluses and negatives of that and, but participating in the laws of circulation is as you engage with a law of circulation, it's.

It's that contribution, it's that aspect of, we have a contribution plan that we do. And so we, contribute to a variety of different organizations and things that speak to us. They're part of who we are. Now. here's the other side of it. So, here's the, when I talk about the work that we do, everything in my world.

When I'm working with people is to, help them, educate them about everything is on a spectrum. We, you hear the term, especially in the last probably 10, 15 years, about certain children being on the spectrum because of their abilities and, stuff like this. And for me it's no, we're all on the spectrum.

It's just my spectrum is obviously much bigger than where we wanna categorize individuals. And so being on that spectrum, it's are you, are you participating in what speaks to you? Are you participating in a way that fills you up or depletes You and so our, plan of being in the law of circulation is we contribute to these certain organizations.

The other part of the spectrum is there is now we get so much junk mail. Oh. I swear to God, they cut down a forest every week just to fill up our mailbox. I'm like, and obviously I know that nonprofits make money by selling their lists and stuff like this, but it's just one of those things where, we know who we're contributing to.

So it's we don't have a problem with, someone else asking if that we're interested in contributing to their cause. But, it's just amazing how that, it's just ballooned up. you would be amazed how much mail we get. So is there a way to help save some trees? I guess this is the point I'm getting to.

Okay. to save some trees. Yes. There might be some ways to save some trees. I do have, yes, you get inundated right Once, once you, start whatever your passion is, right? Whatever it interests you and in your circulation, approach and being able to share that. another opportunity is sometimes, I think we have probably 95% of it that you receive, won't.

Or new stuff that you received, you have no interest in, right? It's not your priority. It wasn't what you chose that 5%. It might be something new. It might take you on a different journey that you hadn't expected. So we could look at it as potentially an opportunity to open. is it, presenting ourselves somewhere?

again, 95% of it you'll just, it will go to the bin and go to recycle. that other 5%, it might be a story. 'cause I think that's what, one of the things to connect to is the story. What was the passion behind it? And it wa wasn't that cause was there something in that story that resonated to you that you might go and apply somewhere else?

Was it something else for a cause that you care about and that you are doing distribution? They're like, Hey, you know how they framed that? That was really impactful. We might be able to take that and reuse it, for our organization. And what our cause and do it. So I think, I don't have the answer to stop, the, all the, inundation to pay.

And I feel you, I understand that. That's, that said, I think one of the things I've learned to is just be open to it because I think the changes and opportunities come when we least expect it. And that's why I wanted to ask the question is, There's nothing wrong with sending your invitations out into the world.

So if these nonprofits, whether they met us organically, whether they got our name off of a list, a lot of people go into reaction. And the thing is, when we're in reaction, it's a lower energy, it's a lower vibration. It is, it's a weaker state of who we are. It really is. Part of the reason why I wanted question is save.

Even when we get these new, something new shows up, it's so funny that I know that it's new, right? Of all the, mail that we get, I know, wow, this is a new one. Does it speak to me? It's an invitation and that's where I was, why I asked the question is. We have a practice where there's certain things that we definitely contribute to annually, right?

We're gonna contribute to this cause to that cause whatever. But then there's a percentage of our discretionary that it's maybe this year we'll go this direction. Maybe next year we'll go that direction. Maybe. And so it's part of that, like you said, staying open to it. 'cause you find these certain causes.

I love animal causes. I. Animals are just trying to survive and exist. They don't, typically have the ego influx that human beings do. and God bless the human beings that are out there struggling. We, we, can step up and help them as well. But, I do love the furry creatures and animals, how we can, appreciate everyone.

so what's on the horizon? Tell, me what's coming up for you. Wow. on the horizon. one of the things that I'm really excited about, you talk about creating space. Okay. in this opportunity, I'm really excited on the horizon for, my impact catapult. and it is a going to be, this opportunity and space for nonprofit leaders to come together.

and being able to, answer our questions and challenges. 'cause one of the things that I've heard as I've spoken to a lot of different, leaders in this space is sometimes we run into a challenge. I. We can't go to our staff because our staff, we, actually are probably in the position. We don't, we, can't admit that we don't know yet.

even though that's human and that's natural. same kind of reason. We may not be able to go to our board depending on the board or to our funders. And so now we're trying to figure it out. And, so with the Impact, catapult is an opportunity to bring the nonprofit leaders together to solve those challenges.

What are the growing pains that are happening? It's real. And to be able to have that in the real time and build capacity with the organization to help contribute to that sustainability and to, and also to foster collaboration within the space across different causes. Because everything, we have things to learn from each other, taking the time in order to be able to share them.

I was gonna ask you, is it I throw it out in different terms 'cause people hear and listen differently, right? Different filters. is it like a mastermind for nonprofit leadership to access to help them access their strength and ability? Is that what I'm hearing? it is. in that context, I there are similar, yes.

Components of it, if you've been in a mastermind, in order to be part of that type of community, in organization or cohort, whichever model you may be familiar with and added to that is also educational opportunities to build the knowledge and the capacity that you need to take back to the organization.

So it's, that plus. If you will. Good. Yeah, because I, don't wanna generalize it. I only say mastermind 'cause there's, it's, we're dealing with society and how they listen. I, listeners, we love you. We're all, we all get caught up in patterns of listening and showing up in the world.

We all do. I do too. And, it's just to build that familiarity. So I don't wanna, it's not to simplify it, it's to really say your unique approach to this is, it may be similar to this, but here are the enhancements. Here's where it actually has its own walk, if you will. Wow, that sounds like a quite an opportunity, especially for leaders who, like you said, you can't go to your staff and you can't go to your board and we all don't know everything.

And to, have the humility to sit here, and that's the vulnerability, that's strength right there is to recognize what if I actually teamed up. What if I did what the billionaires did where they kinda get together in their own little cls and groups and do something. Wow. What if nonprofit leaders actually did something similar?

What could happen there? 'cause it is easy for us, and I'll, just go this direction. 'cause it's, part of the spectrum. It is easy for us to go into scarcity and fear and whoa, what if someone steals my idea and what if this, and it's And what I say first and foremost is we as individuals are unique and divine essences.

But let's get really clear, we all, every single person on this planet stands on the shoulders of many thousands of people. Like we're only original in how we put things together. we can go back to Aristotle's days, we can go back to Shakespeare's days. They've said way more and accomplished way more than we probably ourselves will ever in our lifetime.

So it's just being aware of that and am I helping the cause or lip? Let me know, Tanja, how is this sound? I, yes, it is. I'm, I would agree. we're each, we each have our different. Perspective, we were talking earlier about coaches, right? Not every coach is the right coach for everyone.

there is a style in a, moment, and I would expand that too for people to under also understand about nonprofits at the core, the problems that exist or the challenges that exist, or the issues and the opportunities in a for-profit world also apply to nonprofit. And I think that is often lost when there's a, different filter.

and I'm, to help clarify, once we hear nonprofit, we're like, we can't make money. You can't do this. and there are myths or we operate differently. I will tell you there are, nuances, right? There are certain things within the sector of nonprofit, that will vary. But at the core.

it is the same and we need to realize that, we're not alone. So often it feels, especially when you get to the higher levels or you, are a new leader into an opportunity or you're starting a new profit, you feel alone. and it doesn't mean. To be that way, if you were open to getting to help.

And that's, a lesson myself. I had to learn. I shared with you earlier that I was closed, and that perspective, by the way, I wouldn't say I was necessarily proud of all these moments, but I have also over time learned, what it meant, to be able to help others to see it. And, to offer that.

And also part as this impact Catapult, will be as you've framed it, the a Mastermind. So it will be a cohort. There also will be opportunity to. for one-on-one engagement so that they can, if there's something even a little bit more sensitive, at least at that moment for them, we can still get them answered, but we'll, handle it, in a more private nature.

so we're still making progress and going forward well, and to be able to have that space, to create that space so that someone can be vulnerable and still be safe. I wanna hit one point real quick as, we're getting close to wrapping up, but not quite yet. but the, point that you were talking about, there are a lot of coaches out there and not every coach is for you.

And I like to look at coaching as itself, like a professional sports team or like a, let's take a an NFL football team. You have a head coach, you have assistant coaches, you have position coaches, you have, people coaching on so many, in so many, there's 40, 50 coaches on a team between trainers, coaching, between, coaching for their recovery.

it's recognizing that, even if you had the head coach, if you only had the head coach and you didn't have the other supportive coaches. You could be missing a lot of potential that's still locked away inside of You and I talk to a lot of people, because coaching's, to me it's, so prevalent in the world.

but how I liken coaching is think of an Olympic athlete. These are people that are like at the, peak of their, sport, right? The top essence of their sport. Michael Phelps is a better swimmer than me, than anybody I know, right? So you think, all right, he's number, with all the medals that he has, and number one in the world back when he was swimming and competing, why did he still have a coach?

Because there's still incremental between mindset and application and execution. There's these incremental growth and awareness, coaching, training, advising, mentoring, whatever you want to hold it or call it, helps those who are still engaged with their own growth and evolution. And so for our listeners, It is about evolution. It is about that aspect of,

for who we came into this world as this little infant. I, look at these infants, I look at little, young kids, toddlers, even younger than toddlers, but these little things, and they're so full of divine energy and then we condition them to this world. And then, I don't know about you, but for me it was like, when I got done with high school and was gonna go play football and go, play college, I, that's what I was gonna do.

life had a different direction for me, and then I realized it was like going, all right, this different direction. then I got, got through college and then I, and I kept thinking, I, I arrived somewhere, or I arrived somewhere, so now I'm gonna be something right. Only to realize there was a lot, there was huge letdown in that process.

And once I got really clear that life was an ever-growing, ever-evolving experience, how I engaged with the feedback that life would bring to me was very different. And I would say, and, the reason why I'm going this direction is a lot of these nonprofits, a lot of these for-profits. 'cause it could be nonprofit, it could be for-profit, but you've focused on nonprofits.

They have so much potential and they're so full of wisdom and information and possibility. How can you tap into it by this program that you're talking about where, all right, you've already succeeded in some areas, but how do you keep the evolution and growth going? And that's what I hear about what you're offering is.

Is this aspect, let me ask you, how does somebody get ahold of you or what's the best way for someone to get ahold of you or to watch out with what you're doing? I, so they can stay in touch. one of the things, so this Impact Catapult we're, I'm looking at launching of fall of 25. and so shortly on our website in just a few weeks, you should be able to learn more about it, and inquire if that is something that you're interested or you want to explore, to do that.

learn. There you can Also, LinkedIn is always a wonderful, connection point. you can reach out with. To me there, if you'd like more information or just to chat, because one of the things I think you also, when you talk about coaches and who's right for you, I am a firm believer that if I'm not your resource, if I'm really not what you need right now, let me help you find the resource that you need.

It is more important for me to be able to make sure that you're making progress for where you need to be right now. and if that's the case, I am, I'm more than happy to help share that, with you, and give you some guidance or some questions you might wanna ask. if you really need something differently right now for your outcome that you're looking for.

Nice. Let me ask you. It's not to open up another can of worms, but it's, I think it's pertinent to where we are today. So we are in a very, and it's not to go one direction or the other. We are in a very tumultuous time with our country, with our politics, with how we as a leader around the world are affecting the world, and that affect nonprofits.

How they show up on a day to day, it can mess with their mindset is what I'm exploring, right? It's like going, oh, cuts here and stuff. Like all this kind of stuff and it's what advice would you give somebody who is struggling with a mindset of, the potential of what's going on in this world right now?

Do you have any suggestions? it's, Stay in the art of possibility. It's still possible. It might look different. Hey, if, resources, and I know contraction is happening at seven levels right now, if that's happening, how can we still make incremental progress with what we do have? How could we look at it differently?

when we had, I was working with an organization in the pandemic, hit. When the pandemic hit, and we had a plan, and they worked with schools. And when the schools essentially shut down or nobody went to school anymore, we all went online. during that lockdown period, we had to shift. We had to look at opportunities to become a thought leader and make different types of connections because nobody was answering phone calls.

They were so overwhelmed with what was happening around them. That wasn't the time. And when we came out, we had now built different types of relationships because we have the thought leadership. We've still been that partner out there. We may have had to scale back. So I think, in terms of mindset, stay in the art of possibility.

There's something that can be done, it just may look differently. And that's the part I think people get. becomes hard and becomes a challenging 'cause you may have to let go. You may have to change. Change is the part that's the hard part. yet, I'm a firm believer there's always a way.

Nobody said you had to like the way, it's just that there is a way that you can still go forward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I.

As human beings, we like our patterns and it's part of our comfort zone. And when we do run into these challenging times, your mindset is one of the biggest things that will get you through if you're open to realizing that when there's upheaval, there's also new growth, there's new birth, there's new opportunity, there's, but are you seeing it?

Are you open to looking for it? Are you asking. Rather than being in reaction, are you staying inaction? And so having that possibility and looking for that possibility, I you're right on the mark. I love what you're saying because great, insight. So Tanja, I may have you back on again. I just, this is great learning about you and this process and we can go down other subject matters as well.

but I just wanna thank you so much for taking the time today because. Not only learning about you, but learning about how nonprofits can potentially open up to greater possibilities for themselves and for their leadership. That's huge. is there any, what's, the best way for someone to reach out to you?

Is it to go through your website? So what's your website or what's your, email or how would you they contact you? So the website is, Www three com. Now, if you're wondering how to spell osa, I always like to say it's tacos with an A. TACA. Three sixty.com. there you can learn more. you'll be able to learn about impact Catapult.

I also will have some resources, for you about how you can empower nonprofit and follow that passion. as well as, if you're project management, you need something more tactical, have some essentials, that you can actually use, input to use right away, for that. And also always on LinkedIn.

that will be an opportunity to, reach out. Wonderful. Wonderful. yeah, guys, ladies, gentlemen, go out, check out her website. I've actually been exploring it. Some, the wisdom of what's there is, your ability to put. Things succinctly together. And as building blocks, as I'm like looking through your material, it, just makes sense to me.

So I, like stuff like that because I ha I think sideways or twisted. but for all the folks out there listening, thank you so much for, hanging in there and listening to our conversation today. it's, remember, this, life is always talking to you. Are you listening? Are you listening on the multiple levels that are available to you?

Oftentimes we do. Most of the times we don't. until next time, stay open to who you are and what's available for you. Keep exploring the possibilities and remember, the universe is up. Is talking to you. Are you listening? Until next time. See you on the next podcast. Thank you.