Powerful And Unpolished

Good day everyone. Welcome to Powerful and Unpolished. I'm Tim Salmans. I'm your host. we have another wonderful day with our friend Nanette Levin. She has, decided to come onto the podcast and explore and play some more to, play with some more topics, that we, we wanna check out giving a shot.

Welcome. Thanks for joining us again, Nannette. Thanks for having me, Tim. Yeah. I sprung this on Nanette. I said, let's talk about waxing philosophically. And she's what the hell does that mean?

And I, kinda explained it to her a little bit, but I'll, bring her all the listeners up to speed. the reason why I talk about waxing philosophically, or, just being philosophical is, Throughout my life, A lot of times I've heard people say, oh, that's, yeah. that's not real.

That, that's like wishful thinking. That's, philosophical. That's not reality. You need to be more realistic. And recently I heard a. I was in my wife's car and heard a show that was on public radio or something like this. They were talking about some story, couldn't even tell you what the story is, but at the end, the, two professors that were part of the, program had mentioned, yeah, it's, a philosophical application, and it is a stretch, it is what we've been really working on and I heard them Maybe downplaying their philosophy approach a little bit. Not too much, not, intending to, and I was like going, no, this is their, what they were sharing, what their ideas were. I'd shared this one with Nanette, that, they had these ideas and I have my own ideas around philosophy or philosophical thinking, but since Annette's here, I'm gonna throw it at her.

Gee, thanks a lot. Yeah. So, you know what we've talked about. What do you think about, people who are philosophical or, wishful thinkers as some people like to say? I guess everything is philosophical before it's proven real, There's that. Yeah. And that's my kind of approach to this whole thing is, if we had people, let's, just get really clear.

If we were being realistic from the start of man, we were being mankind, womankind, people, kind, humankind, whatever you wanna call it, if we were being realistic, we would still be living in caves. Fire would be our greatest accomplishment. think about it. If someone had told Edison enough times to sit down and be realistic, do you think we'd have light bulbs?

Do you think we'd have the ability to harness electricity the way we have? for me, philosophical is like you, you've gotta, you gotta step into the creative potential if you're going to. Build a car, build a home, build a museum, landscape your property. there, there is, a method to all of this engineering and whenever I just hear people, ah, you be realistic, it to me, it's sort be the way I expect you to be.

Don't be something more. and I guess that begs the question, who decides what's real? Who decides what's realistic? Absolutely. So who does decide? It depends. It depends on the individual's perspective. I love that you said that. 'cause I was gonna say, isn't it up to us to decide as individuals?

Absolutely. and some people look to science to demonstrate proof. Some people look to religion. I. Some people look to personal experience, some people look to family tradition. They're just all different ways to interpret the world and determine for yourself what you view as. to go back to what you were saying, a realistic perspective, and it's, it's that perspective and that awareness of, so when you have all those influences of, family history, religious influence, intellectual influence, education, variety of interactions throughout our lives, our, it's as I often like to say, it's really knowing and understanding on how to work the spectrum.

there is a spectrum to this aspect. It's if we are all philosophical with no application, no realism or realistic, you're not, gonna be very effective at creating anything. it's basically glorified pontification, if you will. Naval gazing. Yeah. Then you have the other side, which is people who are like you.

this is how it works, this is how I know how it works. this is how it's been proven. This is what we know, this is what we stay with. And it's like going, yeah, and that's what you'll be stuck with. It's you know what we expect, we get, and sometimes it's like there's nothing wrong with expecting Mount Everest or expecting something incredible.

As long as there's application behind it. I, there's a spiritual community that I participate in and, one of the key elements is. People can get very philosophical in that sort of spiritual philosophy and, approach, or how whatever their approach is, they can get so caught up in the philosophical aspect of it.

And so if they're praying or, doing treatments or doing, mindfulness exercises or meditations or whatever it is, if they're doing it in a sense that it is so philosophical and. that's where the energy stays and that's where the information stays. Then it's, that being out of touch, right?

That, and so in the circle of the spiritual circle that we practice in, one of the practices is that we talk about is you treat and move your feet. So you treat and move your feet, and the concept is that you put action to. To the philosophy, you put application to the intention. And that's where we really start to affect our world.

Whether it is in a spiritual realm, whether it's in a professional realm, whether it's in, sports, arts, music, entertainment, whatever it is, it's great to be able to work that spectrum. And so there is a spectrum between philosophical approach and, base grounded application and all the, levels and perspectives in between.

Now as I'm sitting here, pontificating, I'm looking at and I'm like. So what do you think Nette? What am I missing here? I think is a matter of perspective always. One of the things that I'm seeing a lot of right now, and I have to be working with some authors who are in this space, is some radical what could have been considered radical thinking around leadership precepts that.

10, 15, 20 years ago, and from what I am seeing, a big push now as, you get into philosophical versus realistic, is to focus on employee. Connections. So rather than leading in a hierarchical manner, a lot of people are now suggesting that a better way to lead is with empathy and trust and buy-in and all of that.

And 20 years ago, many probably would've called that. Philosophical thinking and unrealistic. And today, what a lot of people are saying is it is unrealistic to expect a company to thrive long term without leadership connecting with the people who are bringing for company product or service or whatever it may be.

So I think philosophical versus realistic changes dramatically. Sometimes in short periods of time, sometimes in longer periods of time. And I also think it's very much related to your upbringing and your environment and who you are. what is philosophical for one person may be realistic for an animal.

Absolutely. That's the spectrum awareness. That's a key factor in the spectrum awareness. 'cause when we are in that spectrum awareness, we're fluid. Like you said, one person's philosophy could be another person's reality or realism. And for each person it's being able to adapt as we move. like you said, 20 years ago, the corporate world had a significant different take on leadership, in the corporate environment, and now they're considering.

Certain realities and the fluidity of that spectrum is still gonna be there. 'cause what's it gonna be in another 10 or 15 years, 20 years from now? We do have a tendency to cycle back some. We do have a tendency to grow into new realms. So it's having that ability to, beat flexed and fluid. Flexible and fluid.

And of course it is all relative because Microsoft has been a company that's. Sometimes celebrated for their leadership and definitely celebrated over the last 10 years for their market cap growth. Just laid off 9,000 people yesterday, oh, wow. That's a key element too on the, spectrum, if you will.

Look at where we're at as a country, as a culture, as a political environment, as the world environment, the global environment. there's a lot of upheaval and shifts that's changing. Human beings in general tend to not like change. They like predictability. That's what it's innate in us as human beings, right?

We, we wanna know tomorrow's secure so I don't have to worry about it. And then sometimes stuff like this happens. I just had this discussion with my wife. My wife and I were, we. We've decided we're gonna introduce a new pattern. Rather than try to fight an old pattern, we've decided to introduce a new pattern.

So the old pattern was we should really get out and work out more and eat better and exercise more, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm sure that's a pattern that people are probably somewhat familiar with in this culture. And so for us it was like, rather than entertain all that, we decided we're gonna.

To create a new pattern. The new pattern is we're gonna walk five KA day. So we're walking, five kilometers a day, and we're, we've just done 21 days in a row. Yay. Yay. Yeah, both of you. Congratulations. And it's, what's interesting is. Each day. Some days are relatively easy, it's a nice little walk.

Other days it's like going, man, this day's a little bit. And so it's how life is, right? Some days are a little bit more flowing and, receptive to us. And other days are like, man, there's a lot more work or effort, right? so that pattern that we're overriding there is. Know, it'll, have the life that it has as long as we put intention to it.

but when we started this, it wasn't like, we're gonna do five KA day every day for 21 days. It was like, Nope. It's just, what do we do today? Do it today. Yeah. So I forgot where I was getting off to. I had a point and, you were saying that instead of trying to correct old patterns, that we decided to introduce a new.

Yeah. And so for us it's, just introducing the new ones and, it's a hell of a lot easier to put energy into a new pattern than trying to override or rewrite an old one or fix an old one or, and I think that's where sometimes we can. Get caught up. 'cause we like the predictability, we like the, human beings, we like our patterns, That keep us safe. And so for us it's, not trying to rewrite an old pattern, I guess is my point. Or making a new one a pattern. Yeah. it's interesting, one of the things, not to get way off on a tangent, but one of the things that I have conversations with quite frequently with clients and others.

Is that writing a book, for example, becomes much easier if you make it part of your daily routine. I get a lot of resistance to that. I do four hours in a block. I do one day a week, whatever your decision is. But generally, daily is easier. And picking the same time every day also helps. So as, you work to develop a new pattern, making it a pattern helps solidify it into your, day or your week or your month.

In my experience, it's, that's a great point. It's, when you were sharing that, the, word that came to me was consistency. And that's the one thing that I've. Probably in the last month it's been the most impactful for my world, is consistency. not perfection. it's all whatever it is, but just being like, all right, did I do what I say I was gonna do?

Maybe it didn't turn out as good as I expected, but I'm still consistent and I'm moving forward. And I thought about that. I was working with one client. They felt so far behind the eight ball and I, was, I was sharing, wow, I can understand that. I can relate to that. I should have done this.

I should have gotten that done and I should be further along and all the shoulds. And it's I asked this client, I said, what if you were somebody that was just new coming into the market and you just started your program? What if you forgot all the stuff that you know, all the expectations you've had on yourself?

Would you be making yourself bad and wrong because you're just starting? Or would you be excited for just starting? And the client said, I think I'd be excited for just starting. I said, exactly. They said, you just started today. Wherever you are on your path, it's a new start because it's a new day.

And they were like, okay. I never, 'cause the thing is you lose so much energy. Chasing the would've. And the could'ves. And the should'ves. Sure. that's a great point. And I think the other side of that is, and, another question to ask people is, would you talk to a friend like that? I think that the conversations we have with ourselves, our really nasty most of the time, so bringing it around to.

In, this case, the guilt, the beating himself up or herself up and, the focusing so heavily on something that is passed and there they have no control over what already happened and doing it in a way that's really critical of themselves. Most people wouldn't talk like that to a friend.

Yeah. And do you think that's a pattern of how. Sure, pattern, habit, ingrained behavior, whatever you wanna call it. but I think it, it's fairly universal. I, most people I know are a lot harder on themselves than they are on anyone else in their world. And that's why, I think sometimes it's hard for people.

To open themselves up to philosophical thinking or wishful thinking, or potential or possibility thinking like they'll open themselves up enough to where they're comfortable or where their pattern, gives them the illusion of feeling comfortable. But who am I to be? It's that quote by, Marianne Williamson.

There's a quote that Marianne Williamson did in one of her early books, and it's a great quote. it's, Nelson Mandela. It was a, someone had it, some people have attributed it to Mel Nelson Mandela, but he got it from her book or from someone sharing her book. And, he said it in part of his inauguration speech, and it talked about, Who, am I to be fabulous. To be great to be, and, I'm paraphrasing here, I'm not quoting exactly, but as in her beautiful quote, just divinely guided. It was like, who am I to be great, wonderful. Who am I to agree, be powerful, beautiful, and all this kind of stuff. And then in the next line it says, who are you not to be?

You play in small does not serve the world. It does not serve anybody else. by you actually standing in who you are. And other people have the opportunity to witness that, liberates them from their own patterns, from their own traps, from their own. Again, I'm paraphrasing, but it is a, very divine.

Beautiful quote that she had, she, had written years and years ago, probably 25, 30 years ago. And, I, that's what we're talking about. It's being aware of the patterns and then are you open, are you willing to open up even beyond what your expectation or, what gay Hendrix would call it in the big leap, your upper limit problem.

Have you ever heard of that? The upper limit problem? Oh. It sounds to me like you are equating philosophical thinking with creativity. Do you see them as similar things? Great question. I very much do because it's all about potential. It's all about possibility. And if, something doesn't have possibility, I.

The odds of anybody ever creating it, experiencing it is next to none. you have to believe in some sort of possibility, even if it's like Columbus, he believes that he's, going to sail to the West Indies and he ends up in America. Oops. But the possibility was maybe the earth isn't flat and we're not gonna fall off the earth.

he was thinking beyond the possibility. 'cause otherwise it was just a suicide mission. And why send anybody back once you landed? it's interesting. I find most or many people that I encounter, particularly in business and I work with a lot of corporate executives and entrepreneurs and other business leaders, don't believe they're creative.

It's not just in business. I would say 80% of the people that I encounter on a daily or weekly or monthly or yearly basis would say I'm not creative and I don't believe that. I believe everybody is creative. I think that some people have a bigger challenge tapping into their, but even with very.

People. I find once they get into a little bit of a rhythm, they have way more creativity inside of them than they ever imagined. Absolutely. I'm in a whole agreement with you on that one. It's, becoming feeling, it's a relationship. It's a relationship that we have with ourselves. It's is the creativity there?

Is it not there? I love that you brought that up because it really, I liken it the whole time you were sharing that. I'm sitting there going, I cross paths with people all the time who think they're not emotional. I'm not emotional. I don't have time for, and I'm like going, your stoicism, your, avoidance, your, gruffness.

Those are all emotional reactions. Yeah. It's like when you, are more emotional than most people. The problem is, you're probably a little bit constipated with, It's like you, you don't have really the relationship to sit there and go, wait a minute, this is emotion. Fear of possibility.

Be realistic. Be realistic, can come across as fear of possibility. There's an emotion in there, right? Whereas if it wasn't fear and it was open to possibility, then it might be the emotion, might be excitement, might be, adventure. Who knows what it might be. I think with what you're talking about with the creativity.

Now, just to remind the listeners that, Annette's my editing guru, she is the one that keeps me sounding, intelligent human, and helps me to refine. my concepts and my ideas, she, is, just a blessing in my world and on this path that I, that we share together. And, she really helped me.

I, had the words, I just had too many words and in too many directions, and she helped me keep it succinct. so the work that she does with the vast amount of authors that she works with, I truly know from firsthand experience of being blessed by her, expertise and, creativity and the discussions that we had along the way because, I, had to explain myself a number of times, which was really good for her and for me.

but Nanette with. With you working with all these authors, especially in their leadership realm. And what made me wanna go down this, line is I hear a lot of them talk about if you go back 20 years ago, oh, I'm not emotional, there's, no room for emotion in business and all this kind of stuff.

And there's so much emotion and that it's so pent up. And then here we are 20 years later and now they're talking about, maybe exercise, some empathy maybe. Which is also movement of emotion, right? It's a relatedness. So what are you noticing? 'cause you've shared some already, but what are you noticing with that leadership approach?

'cause the work that we do that you helped me with my book, was also around leadership. First of all, thank you so much for the kind words, the compliments. I appreciate it immensely. My pleasure. And I'm blessed by it. Thank you. But I guess to your question, and I don't view leadership solely from the corporate well realm or even just the business realm.

I spent a large percentage of my working career in the marketing industry, and one thing that I have found. Unilaterally, and I think this goes to some of the philosophies that they're trying to impart in people in corporate leadership now is people are much more eager and excited about supporting an end game when they are included in creating the plans.

And I think a lot of that is what's. Coming into this whole idea that is being couched in trust and empathy and all those other terms. So I think it's a good thing. Yes, I think it's always been there, and I think what is being discovered at the corporate level in bigger ways than has been in the past is productivity is impacted by.

People working in the organization feel about what they're doing. it's not rocket science to my mind. It's not rocket science. I think sometimes we, overinflate certain importances to give ourselves significance. And what if we didn't have to give ourselves significance? What if we were already significant?

and that possibility because especially in the corporate world, and I, think of the corporate world, but I, run around with a lot of entrepreneurs. There's a lot more entrepreneurs probably now than ever before. But I think there's going to be more, you, had just mentioned about, Microsoft laying off 9,000 employees, which, bless them.

Hopefully they're guided and supported in a healthy direction. Hopefully there's also a realization that the skills that they have when they wrap up, that position that they can go out into the marketplace, into the world and bring value and create some sort of income or source. companies are constantly having to look to, what they're, having to look to.

Employing a certain number of people. And years ago I did a program where I would train the concept. It was a mindfulness concept around, entrepreneur mindset versus an employee mindset. And the interesting thing was, is the employee mindset. Was a disadvantage at times, which was unfortunate, but it was a disadvantage because they didn't really realize that these companies or corporations had to go out and they took the risk.

They took the risk on creating their position in the marketplace. So for an employee to show up with. Entitlements of, I'm, I'm giving you part of my life to do this. And it's like going, yeah. And we're the ones that stuck our neck out for this opportunity to create this, And people will have all their philosophies, oh, they make too much money and all this.

And it's like going, that's a whole nother discussion. This is just about opportunity itself and. in that training between the employee mindset and the entrepreneurial mindset, it was really to highlight for entrepreneurs how many of them were still hanging onto the employee mindset. Oh.

Because they kept it as, I work for myself, so you know, I can, take Wednesday and Thursday off and I can do this. And it's like going, no, let's go to the reality of if you're gonna launch your business, if you're gonna launch your value out there into the world, it's like launching a rocket into outer space.

You're going to use, 80, 90% of your effort and energy just to get off the launching pad and break through the atmosphere. Now once you get out into the EERs and you have established yourself and you're still, coordinating the direction you're going, then you, it doesn't take as much energy.

It doesn't take as much. But, it amazes me how many entrepreneurs took the risk of putting their neck out. Are still under the illusion of being a W2 and that they can let themselves, it's like going, no, you will be working 60, 70, 80, a hundred hours a week, depending on how successful you want that business to be.

It's just being in relationship, everything that we're talking about today. having spec, spectrum awareness in all the different perspectives that are available to us in how we approach. Whatever endeavor that is important to us at that time, whether it's a personal endeavor, whether it's a professional endeavor, whether it's a relationship endeavor.

Are we exploring the spectrum and are we fluid enough in it to capitalize or explore possibility? I think really as you are talking about philosophy or philosophical conversations and. I'm talking about creativity. It really comes down to being open to seeing what's possible and leaning into putting energy into it.

I think that's where the philosophy and the creativity, 'cause I do see it as absolute creativity. That's where I always come from. We have the ability to create, and if we look back over the history of mankind, of humankind, of womankind, is. You sit there and you think, I go back to the, this example frequently.

You've probably heard me say it before, go back 150 years and tell somebody that they'll have this little device in their hands that they can call someone or from around the wor on the other side of the planet, and you can talk to them on a video screen as if they were like right next to you and 50 years ago, you'll get burned at the stake for being a witch.

It's realizing. Possibility is always present. Creativity is always present. The philosophical aspect of it is it's philosophical. The creativity for me brings it into the action application. it's just philosophical. If you're just pontificating, which I. Anybody who knows me, I'm a pontificator sometimes.

I'm like, what if, what if Mars was really, I don't know, you start sitting there thinking about all these different, I, had this pontification side note, I had this pontification the other day. I was like going, what if. What if Earth is the dark side of the Garden of Eden and there's another planet that's actually the Garden of Eden.

I'm like, where the heck did that come from? But it's entertaining, it keeps you, it's like any other muscle in your body though. That's why the philosophical aspect or the creative aspect is if you're exercising that muscle. Possibility of philosophy, of creative application, what might you create that you didn't think or even consider was possible for yourself 10 years ago?

Five years ago? Yesterday? Yeah, yesterday. And that's really why we do this podcast. the, listeners have who have been following us, they've heard this before, but. This podcast is really about being open to the possibility to have the conversations to learn about these divine souls.

Everybody who's, been a guest on here is just a blessing and it's, it's really about exploring the possibility, not only that we talk about here, but that you could potentially, the listener, that you could potentially listen, hear something, and maybe start to consider something for yourself because.

There is a, there's many divine truths and one of the divine truths that I absolutely know is this, is that the universe, the planet, your path, your life is always talking to you. It is always giving you feedback, and it is always teaching and there to grow you. Are you listening? That's the biggest aspect.

Are you listening to the path that you're on as it's talking back to you? And with that note, I just wanna thank you and Nanette for joining us again. It's always fun having you on here, especially to, stimulate thought and ideas. So thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. we will, continue to bring you, more discussions like this, but, For now, we're going to wish you farewell. This is, this is actually when we're recording. This is right around the, independence Day celebration for the United States. for those who are out there, be safe. We wish you well and just encourage you, be open to the possibility of everything, people that are like you, and people that are very different from you.

And consider, what you can learn from each other. So remember, life is always talking to you. Are you listening? And until next time, we wish you all the best. If you like this show, please leave us a give us a review. Share us with your friends. Until next time, we wish you all the best.