Powerful And Unpolished

Welcome to Powerful and Unpolished. I'm Tim Salmans. I'm your host, as if you haven't heard me say that enough. Um, we have another great guest today. I am so looking forward to introducing this young lady to you. I, I'm just gonna jump right in with her bio. So, uh, Renee Ochsner is an area manager with Arbonne, and she has a background in biology, a master's degree in education, and careers in science education and respiratory therapy.

Now, the thing that I love about having this guest on the show today is she's a multi-time, multi-time, multiple-time, I'm saying that incorrectly, but, um, teacher of the year. So this is some quality that we're having today, folks. So we're gonna have some great conversation. Um, she's passionate about helping people make healthier, more informed choices so they can stay out of the hospital, and she'll tell you a little bit because she knows about being in a hospital, so that you don't end up in one, right?

She was born and raised in Germany in a army family. Renee believes in lifelong learning, staying active, living life to the fullest. Outside of wellness, she enjoys traveling, uh, competing with her horses, and playing golf with her husband. And also, uh, it says here that she enjoys wearing cute golf outfits, so, you know, that's a plus.

Uh, welcome to the show, Renee. Thank you for joining us. Oh, thank you so much, Tim. I appreciate it very much. Well, um, just so that I don't leave the listener kinda going, "What the hell is he talking about?" How would you know about being in a hospital? Tell, tell, tell me a little bit about that right now.

Okay. I have been a respiratory therapist for almost 15 years now and got to see people-- Shouldn't say got to. I lived through the COVID crisis, the, the COVID epidemic, and saw tons of people in the hospital, and with just one little change of lifestyle, you know, they could've had a fighting chance. So, um, saw lots and lots of death and took care of lots and lots of people and, um- I just have, my, my heart just goes out to any families who lost people during COVID, but we were there holding hands and doing the best that we could.

Yes. Yes. Thank you for, thank you for the work that you did being in the trenches. I was an EMT for 15 years, and I worked in a hospital for four, or, uh, just under four, and, uh, I actually didn't work through COVID, and I had a lot of friends who I used to work with who did. And outside of people's conspiracy and all that kind of stuff, it was like, you know, "Oh, make me wear a mask.

Oh," you know, all this kind of stuff. And it's like, it's not to get political or anything like this, but then I said, "All right, if you don't, if you don't like masks, then don't have your doctor wear a mask while you're doing surgery," right? You know what I mean? It's like- Yes ... and usually the people who had an issue with masks, you know, wanted their doctor to still wear a mask while they were operating on their leg or their knee or whatever, and I'm like going, "Okay."

That's just a little, uh, little jump-off point though because you have lived through an incredibly challenging experience, and you understand what it's like when people manage their health, manage themselves well. And oftentimes, I, I don't know if you've had this experience, but we had some people that, you know, some people that should have made it who didn't.

And, you know, bless, bless them. There is no absolute right or wrong, yes or no to this. There's, there's many different experiences and many different shades of gray. Absolutely. So that's where, you know, just having the compassion that you have and that you've been through, and you see people who are going through some of their worst days, and to help them come out of that experience and, and also then to have a profession where you're helping people enhance their health through what you do.

Tell us a little bit about that, please. Well, just, um, teaching people how to eat a clean, inflammatory diet, leaving out some of the, the, um, additives and things like that, they feel so much better. And then they are healthier when something comes around. Um, it's just re- so rewarding to be able to help people get down to the, a manageable weight, to be able to, um, help people make the healthy choices and s- like when they go to Starbucks, instead of having four or six pumps of something, they just have one pump of something, you know, extra.

So just little simple, simple things that, that can make a huge difference, um, in the way a person feels. I love that you're, you're touching base on that because there, it's the little things that, that add up, right? Absolutely.

There's an experience that I've had with-- 'cause I, I'm definitely more focused right now on an anti-inflammatory type diet. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, doesn't mean that I get it right every day. But I have to say, in general, my patterns, and we are pattern creatures, my patterns are very different from what they were two, three months ago.

And, you know, it's not like I had-- I went into it doing any big change, if you will. You have something that, that intrigues me, and I want, I wanna, I want you to share it with the listeners. So you have a YES program or a YES kind of reference that you work with. Tell me a little bit about, you know, what inspired you to create this YES framework, and what is it?

Well, I call it the YES Effect, so Y-E-S. So, um, we live in a society right now that is bombarded with all kinds of things. Um, uh, so I have why? Yes to clarity. How can you figure out what's, what's going on? You know, how can you figure out who to trust, basically? Um, I have E, embrace simplicity. How can you simplify your life and make decisions easier?

And then S, how can you search for more? So you're, you're living a life that you love, but you want more out of it. So that's-- You know, we say no to ourselves so many times, um, no to this, no to that. You know, "I can't do this. I can't do that," and we've got some things now that you can say yes to. Yes, you can, and I'm not- Yes

being facetious here. I've always loved, uh, I don't know if you remember the old movie. What was it? Can't-- I, I can picture him, and I can't even think of what his name is right now. But it was Yes Man. Yes. And I, I, what I loved about that movie is when he would say yes to something that he didn't wanna do, it was amazing what else it opened up for him.

There's a, a thing about this yes, though, that, uh, has me intrigued. So we're creatures, human beings. Our listeners, um, I think they know that a lot of what we're talking about is the human experience, staying open, being open, growing ourselves open to maybe what's more possible for us. And being in that possibility is really our own opportunity of exploration because, as Carl Jung says, you know, "The world will ask you who you are, and if you don't know, the world will tell you."

And- Yes. That's profound ... I love that quote because that's... Especially in today's age, you know, people who are so, um, befuddled with conspiracy and, and fear and insecurity, there, there's-- it's just palpable. It's become so palpable in the last five, ten years at the most. Not like we haven't always had some sort of fear, but I mean, it's really become, you know, heavy.

So you talk about, or I've heard you sort of reference that there's a trust recession. What do you mean by that? Well, think about it. You mentioned something, fake, fake news. You-- We've all heard fake news. But back in, back in the day when we wanted to get information, say, we wanted to learn more about nutrition or ask the doctor what's good or what's bad, you know, you could go get a book.

You could go to the doctor, make an appointment, and he'd have time for you to talk about that. Now, you open your, your, um, iPhone or your computer, and voila. Look, there's, uh- m-- hundreds of different opinions about, um, what's right, what's good or what's bad. For example, eggs, they're good, they're healthy for you.

Eggs, they're bad for you. You know? Um, energy drinks, they fuel you. Energy drinks, they kill you. And these are experts, you know, saying o- polar opposite things. So who do you trust? Do you trust that i- that influencer? Do you, you know, do you trust the com-- TV commercials? Do you trust the, you know, the, the TV shows and things like that?

Who, who do you trust? Do you trust the internet? People say, "Well, it was on the internet, so it must be right." So that's where our, our trust factor comes in or our trust recession comes in. Cool. I love that you, uh, you actually, you talk about this, and I love that we're talking about it now because it gives me something to kind of play with, to, to pull on your, your-- what you think about this.

So, um, I think we live in a world where human beings are patterned. Now, now this comes out of, you know, my business that actually hosts and supports, um, or sponsors, I should say, sponsors Powerful and Unpolished, is Insights for Choice. And the reason why we focus on Insights for Choice is as you go internal, as you find your own insights, it empowers the choices that you make for yourself, okay?

And so in this trust recession, I hear a lot of people who are-- we're human beings. We deal with human beings. We're all affected by it. We're all pattern creatures. We live in patterns because it gives our, our sense of ego or something, an awareness to feel secure, even if it's a false sense of security.

So in these patterns and stuff like this, people start going to, you know, "I don't trust this. I don't trust that. It's the algorithms. It's this or it's that." And it's like, what do you think if I were to say My guesstimation is because so many people are looking out into the world, looking outside of themselves, the reason why we have a trust recession is, one, they don't trust themselves.

What are your thoughts around that? Oh, I, I think that's total- they, they like having somebody else make decisions and choices for them, and then they've got somebody to blame. Right. We've kinda gotten into this phase and, and not everybody's like this, and we're all human beings, and it's, you know, if you're pointing a finger at someone, go point...

Go look in the mirror first and foremost. That's what I always say. But it's this aspect of I want, I wanna-- I'm responsible for all the successes and all the wonderful stuff, and all the bad stuff someone else did to me. And it's like going, who are we for ourselves on our life's journey, on our life path?

And I just wanna h- I wanna raise this, this caveat to our listeners right now. This may sound idealistic. It may sound like we're kind of harping on stuff, but I had it when I experienced it when I worked in the hospital. I'm sure Renee has had it as a respiratory therapist because w- I worked right along respiratory therapists.

When you would have somebody who was so sick that they were crashing on you, and you were trying to save their lives, you know what it's like. So we're not just here to throw out, you know, opinions and hy-hyperbole. We're here to just kinda pull it apart. You know? Not saying that we're necessarily right, but we are coming from an experience of, you know, we've been with people in their last moments of their life in this experience called life And we also know that there's, there's something that we can put out there to maybe support people who have gotten caught up in the algorithm of fear or the algorithm of distrust or the algorithm of let's go find out a conspiracy, and we found out all the information, but really only 20% of it's accurate.

So I'm just, I'm just taking this conversation where this is a cra- crazy, like, kind of a jumping off point, but, um, what are your thoughts, Renee? What are your thoughts about th- this, this trust? You've been there with me. You, you've been there in the trenches. You know what it's like. So what are your thoughts around it?

Well, I, I was thinking of some examples. Um, I had a, I had a patient, she was, um, having a hard time breathing. We did COVID tests. She was p- COVID positive. Um, we were supporting her with oxygen, um, with other, uh, pharmaceuticals too, you know, just helping her to stay comfortable. And she's like, "I don't have COVID.

There is no such thing as COVID." Oh, wow. "There is no such thing as COVID." And I'm like, "You're on the COVID unit. You're on the COVID floor." But she's like, was bound and determined and, um, her husband took her home, and I'm like, "I wonder how that went." You know, I never found out, but that was like to an e- e- extreme degree.

But, um, it was sad. It was sad, and it was, it was scary, and it was... Y- yeah. So I don't know if that's what you were thinking about, you know, as far as, as far as that goes, but, you know, it affects people's lives. It really does. Well, and, and I- the part that I'm not-- I'm trying to kind of maybe explore a little bit with this conversation is I love what you shared there is we, we are, we are creatures of patterns, and there's nothing wrong with it.

It just becomes, it becomes disempowered when we don't take responsibility for the patterns that we live into

And so maybe it, it's not a bad thing to have fear 'cause, you know, you got the other side of the coin, and this is what I love about this show is it's like, let's look at the other side of the coin. Oh, we're the best medical country in the world. We're the best medicine, and it's like baloney. You know, if you've done any of your work out there, it's like I wanna get to know my doctor.

I wanna know that they're listening because-- and I wanna know that they're doing the best that they can, and they're not playing God because they're not God. They, uh, like I said, we, we lose people who should have lived, right? It was all experimental at the beginning. Yeah. And so in that aspect, it's just-- it's, it's having a, a healthy...

May-maybe that's what we're talking about today 'cause a-as we're exploring this, it, it's having a, a healthy sense of, and I'll call it fear, but I don't, I, I don't mean not paralysis type fear, but a, a healthy kind of like, "I have to care for myself. Let me ask the right questions. Let me ask, you know, the extra questions I need."

Proclaiming denial, you know, I mean, you got people who live in denial, and that, that has usually some other things going on for them. Let's go-- Let me ask you this. What's one simple thing that listeners can do now like... 'cause we're talking about overwhelm. I mean, some people are overwhelmed because of their belief system or whatever it is.

So what's one thing that you like to-- when you work with someone, what's one thing you like to, to do to reduce overwhelm for someone? Overwhelm. Well, I have a, a 3D model that I, I like to use. You've got so much going on, and the 3D model is don't-- is to, to delete all of the unnecessary. If you don't need to do it right now, if you don't need to do it today, delete it.

Don't-- Take it off your list right now. So that helps. That can be a relief sometimes. Is it totally necessary? Okay? The next thing is delegate. Like I, I ask my husband, you know, when I'm totally overwhelmed with, with certain things, it's like, "Honey, can you take care of da, da, da, da, da for me?" I don't need to do it.

I can hand it off to somebody else. Um, so you delete what you don't need to do, you delegate what you can, and then the, the third thing that I like to do is you do the one thing that you can do at that time. You can only do one thing at a time. What's next? What's necess- what is necessary and what needs to be done?

So I, I like that, you know, the 3D model: delete, delegate, and do. The 3D model. I like that. 3D model: delete, delegate, and do. Yeah. So that kinda helps get the overwhelm out, help you feel a little bit more simplified. Well, and, uh, what I like about that is, um, you know, when I, when I'm working with someone and they're caught up in a, a reactionary state, I call it.

You know, we get trapped. We get on the, the treadmill of the reactionary state. And sometimes it's like people get dopamine and endorphins from what gets us on the treadmill, right? The problem is, is we get stuck on the treadmill chasing the dopamine and endorphins. And so it's, it's the aspect of who are you?

This, this is directed towards the listener right now. Who are you? Who can you be for yourself? When you have these moments, going to one of the D's that Renee was talking about, deleting, you know, can you recognize is this a familiar pattern that is comfortable, that, that is familiar to your daily behaviors?

'Cause I don't know if you've run into this, Renee, but every once in a while I see somebody they, you know, they call them Karens or they call them whatever they descriptive they... I mean, it's-- Whenever they use these terminologies, I understand h- I mean, it's become its own movement out there on social media and stuff like this, but it's like, it's sort of a discrediting of someone who's either in fear or, or insecurity or something like that.

But this is someone who's caught up in a reaction

They hopefully can have some o-objectivity to help themselves, but does it, you know, how often does it help someone who sits there and says, "You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't be..." You know, it's like if someone's caught up in a reaction, do you think that they're, like, going, "I wanna do this. I wanna..." You know, it, it's, it's a familiar pattern, right?

You sort of sit there and think, how do you get them to shift into

maybe more of an explorative-type mindset? And maybe that's the challenge. Do you think, do you think may... I'm gonna ask you a tough question, Renee. Do you think there is something that can help us to move away from the reactionary state that's so common to us nowadays? I mean, the fear, the propaganda, the political, and I don't care what political side.

I've said this time and time again, I don't belong to either political side. I can sit here and tell you it's the same hand, just one's on one side, one's on the other. So do you think that there's something that people can do or that we can do to help people to maybe wake up when they're in a reactive state?

Well, I think that they've gotta get to the point where they're tired of it, where they realize that maybe there is a pattern going on because you can't make-- you can't force anybody. You can't shake anybody, you know, shake them awake until they get to the point where they wanna change. So, um, and then maybe asking some questions, that would be the only thing is, you know, d-does your life always have to have this much drama?

I-- when you were describing that, I'm thinking as a dr- you know, a drama queen, but people are addicted to that. They're addicted to the drama and the conflict and all of that, and it's... if it, if it keeps happening over and over and over again, then something's going, yeah, something's going on. But they have to get to the point where it's like, "You know what?

I want peace. I want peace. You know, I wanna live a normal life without all the drama." Yeah. It's, it-- to, to live your life, to live your life. I-i-in, in my book that I wrote, I, I referenced that when we give-- when we get caught up in reaction and somebody has, I call it do-- does a power play. Like, and I'll, I'll do this as an example.

Let's say you and I are out there in the world, and I don't know you, you don't know me, and you do something that sort of miffs me, right? Upsets me or so I would sit here and be like going, "All right, you're just acting like a Karen. Why don't you like go, you know, take care of your neighborhood," or something like this.

That right there is a direct energetic, I call it a power play. I'm doing a power grab on you. I'm power grabbing your energy by labeling you, by basically surmising, surmising that, you know, you're, you're the problem, not my decision about you. And so it becomes this sort of power play. Then you may go into a reaction going, "Who the hell are you to call me a Karen because I'm trying to help or do something or have concerns," right?

And so then you may go into this reaction at or towards me. And the thing about it is, is the moment you get into reaction towards me, right, I did the power grab on you. Now you're emotionally affected, and you're, you're coming back at me. The thing is, is because you have the reaction, I hold the power, right?

Absolutely. And so with me holding the power, that's not really what you want. Right. Right? It's not what you want, but it's sort of this reaction of like, "I'm gonna protect myself. I'm gonna defend myself." And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. It's like you're, you're looking out into the world.

You're, you're like, there's a trust issue. You don't trust this person. You don't trust your safety in the neighborhood. You don't trust whatever it is, right? And think about it. If you trusted yourself in that moment and realized that I just did a power grab on you because I'm actually-- maybe I'm doing a power grab on you 'cause I'm just a really weak individual, and I'm doing this to manipulate And so if you actually were able to sit there and say, "Wait a minute, this person hasn't physically accosted me.

This person is like, you know, lashing out at people." What if this is really about this person being a weak person who's trying to manipulate you? If you had more internal trust for yourself, then it may highlight the fact of, "Wow, I got my power because my power isn't about whether this guy reacts to me or doesn't.

It's about how do I manage my space without having to play his game?" Does that make sense? Absolutely, it does. Yeah, I, I always think this too is I've, I've got so much energy to spend, and I'm not going to waste it in that situation because it's his issue, not mine. But people have to come to that u- that point or that, you know, realize that.

Right. And we've gotten to the point that now if I came over and physically started to accost you or something, then you're going to have to at least do some sort of reaction to walk away to protect or do something, right? Yes. But, but even there's a trust factor in that, whereas it's like going, "I can handle myself in this situation," or, "I can actually reach out to others around me and get unification, you know, if necessary."

But it's, it's, it's sort of that aspect of What we've been talking about through this whole conversation is a lot of people are putting their trust out into the world. They haven't done the trust work inside themselves. If they had the trust inside themselves, they'd realize how weak a lot of the people are trying to power grab on them.

Even the term fake news is a power grab. "Oh, that's fake news. That's fake..." No, it's not. It's just, it's more information. Doesn't mean it's true or not true. I don't know. Let's go fact-check because I-- Nowadays, honestly, you fact-check most of everything, half of it has truth, right? Any truth, right? Are we solving the world's problems right now?

Probably not. But we're having a good conversation around it, so, um- Yes ... this has come to me a couple times, so I have to trust my gut when I have these conversations. So knowing that your background, what I, what I really love about who you are, you're my kind of people. You have very deep experiences in multiple areas of, of life, of your journey, of your journey of life.

So tell me about you. Multiple times, you were Teacher of the Year. Now, when you were Teacher of the Year, tell me how that showed up for you. How, how was that experience for you? I loved my students. I loved what I taught. I always tried to find a way to connect life to, to, for them to say, "This is why I need to learn this."

I mean, when you're teaching somebody about a cell or you're teaching somebody about a mitochondria or whatever, you know, it goes over their head, and they're, they feel disconnected. But I worked very hard at trying to make it real life to them. And so when I got, uh, like, the s- I was a Seniors' Choice one year, and it was the connections that I made with those students.

It, it wasn't that I was trying to do that. It, it just, it was a, what do you call it? A, an af- a, a benefit or a side effect from the relationships that I had with these students and how well they did, um, and how well they enjoyed class. You know, I wasn't the cool, cool teacher, but I was, I was fun, and they learned a lot, and they, they enjoyed learning what they learned So, um, I, you know, I still had structure in my classroom, and I still had standards, but they-- I, I loved connecting them to real life Folks, I didn't know what this answer was.

I mean, I just knew it was in her description that she had shared with me. But what you said was just so spot on with this is why I love the work that I do, which is when we... You, you didn't do it for I'm gonna go get this award. You didn't do it. You, you, you basically showed up as a true leader. To me, a true leader isn't a boss, isn't a manager.

Doesn't mean that leaders don't have to manage sometimes or they, you know, every once in a while they may have to make a boss move, but rarely. We live in a world of people, you know, working their way up the corporate ladder, and most of them are bosses or wanna be bosses or, you know, managers at best. We have few leaders.

And what you did was actually a really great example of leadership. You, you weren't focused on some award or anything like this. You were focused on, how do I get these people to be in relationship to what they're doing so they can be stronger for themselves? A real leader creates leaders to surpass them, right?

Instead of, you know, "Oh, here's my entourage. Look who I've trained, look who I've done," you know And I, I, we're talking on a very ethereal, esoteric level. We're talking about soul stuff, folks. For those of you that are listening, this is, you know, there are gonna be a lot of people who wanna be righteous about hanging out in the fear or hanging out in the, the lower levels of vibration.

We're talking about you wanted to bring this life experience to somebody who was trying to grow their own awareness. And as you just shared that, it made me think, I've always-- One thing I love about life, what I love about this opportunity called life, is that the lessons are around us all the time. Like, when you were talking about the mitochondria and the cell and stuff like this, it's like, you know, that doesn't mean much to me.

But then when it's like you make it relatable to where, oh, wow, I, I, I can actually relate to this. I can understand it. I can do something with it. Did you, um, when you worked with your students and had this impact, like you said, you weren't the, the, the, I don't know how you said, the coolest or whatever it was.

But did you feel pretty connected across the board to most of the s- the students you worked with? I very much did. I, I really, I really did. And I gave them opportunities to do problem-solving. I cr- I was thinking, I, when you were talking, some of my students had an IQ that was off the charts 'cause I taught AP and, and honors biology and, and, you know, they had IQs higher than mine.

But I created an environment where they allowed them to use what they had. And oh, my goodness. And I, I had so much fun when they came up with-- they had to come up with researchable questions and, and design a lab around it and, and scenarios like that. And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness, how'd you come up with that?"

I mean, they inspired me. But I gave them, I, I, I, they, I gave them that opportunity. I gave them that framework. I gave them the environment where they could do something like that. And it just made my heart-- Oh, and I would walk around the classroom. I said, "I wanna hear it. I wanna hear it noisy in here. I wanna hear on ta- on-task talking."

And so as I was walking around, and I never sat behind a desk I was al-always walking around and engaging and taking a look at what they were doing and listening to their conversations, and there were some times that I would just get this big smile on my face. It's like, "You guys sound like a bunch of scientists in here."

You know? And I love it, and I absolutely love it. So, uh, it was just, it was thrilling to be able to, um, impact those lives. That's awesome. That's awesome. And it's a gift. It's a gift that, you know, the richness of who you are, the richness of... I really strive to honor people and their authenticity and just you being that authentic.

And authentic is, has always been a very high value, core value of mine. And I have to say, it's been a word that's been kind of like, I don't know, seems like it's been a little devalued in the last handful of years because it's so, so used so frequently for everything. But for me, it's like I still sit there and be like, "You know what?

The genuine uniqueness, authentic, you know, you that it is." 'Cause like you were talking about how these, um, incredibly intelligent, you know, like you said, some of them, their IQs were, were more and stuff like this, and I'm over here going, "Yeah, I was dyslexic, I was ADHD, I was like, I was the one..." But what I love about it is for people who are truly open to it, you know, even Einstein, for his genius, really promoted creativity, thinking outside the box and do, you know, not necessarily just, you know, go confirm your theory.

It was like, no, where else is this gonna take us? What else might this open up for us, right? Yes. And that's the discovery. It's, that's the difference is ego wants to confirm itself, um, but I think our, our, our soul essence wants to explore what's possible. Absolutely, and to think outside of the box and be okay with it.

Yeah. So this takes me to a-another area that maybe this will be good You mentioned that you like to compete with your horses. So tell us a little bit about that. Oh my goodness. So, um, being an Army brat, my-- we were stationed at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, and everybody got to pick a sport, and I was in fifth grade then, and I got to pick riding lessons.

They still had a fox hunt on post, um, which was, uh, very unusual. And, um, so there were horses on post, but I ended up getting riding lessons off post. Um, but I have been-- I have loved horses since I was a little girl, and I always tell these dads with their daughters, I said, um, "I'm one of these girls that never outgrew it."

I said, "And some of the best times I ever had was with my dad, um, and going to horse shows together." I said, "Value this. It, it's just precious time that you'll, that you'll spend with your children," even though riding is, is expensive. But we learned how to, to work around that. Um, but I, yeah, having a connection with an animal that size is amazing.

I love this show 'cause, uh, we get to go all over the place. Um, there's just a divinity. I mean, uh, I- to me, any, any sentient being, and for those who are listening, what I mean by any sentient being, any being that can experience fear, life, uh, comfort, joy, any being, and, you know, some, some beings, you may have insects that maybe they do experience that we just don't know.

But when you actually look at those creatures, especially the, the how regal horses, they're really informative. They're really... What's the word I'm thinking of? Come on, Renee, tell me. Hey, they are, they're intuitive. Yes. They're intuitive. They know if you're anxious. They know if you're frightened. They know if you are, have confidence.

They can read a person. So when you compete, are you, uh, is it jumping? Is it... Okay. So, 'cause you could be doing barrel racing as far as I know. I don't know. Yes. No, I jump. You jump. And how long have you been jumping? Since fifth grade? Wow. I've been jumping since fifth grade, yes. So your horse, do you have multiple horses or just one partner?

I have two. I have two right now, yes. Okay. So when you're riding those horses, are there two distinct, different personalities? Very much so. Tell me a little bit about that. Tell the, tell the listeners a little bit about that. Okay, this is fun. So my big boy, he's 21 now, which is getting-- he's, like, at the end of middle-aged, okay?

So he is, he's big, and he walks into the barn, and he looks at... He's, he's a f- butterfly, a social butterfly. I always say, he walks in and he says, "Vote for me, prom king. Vote for, vote for me, you know, football player of the year." Um, and he walks in with this cockiness. He just cracks me up. And he finishes a course when we're jumping, and he, that's how he walks out of the room, out of the ring.

He's like, "I was good, wasn't I? I was good, everybody." But then what r- really cracks me up is when, when a plastic bag goes bouncing by him or flying by him, he's like, "Oh, my goodness, it's gonna eat me." Oh, wow. But he's just got this ego, and then it's gone. But he, I, I just l- I've had him for 15 years, and he's...

I really, really like him. And, and my girl is, "You can look at me from a distance." She's not a social butterfly, but she's like, "I like my space. You stay away from certain parts of me. Only Mom's allowed to, to, to touch me there," or whatever. She, you know. "But you, but you can look at me because I'm cute." So it's so funny how, how they are.

And my big boy, um, he goes into the ring, and I've got, you know, if I've got confidence, he'll jump the moon. He does. He is fantastic. Oh, wow. And my little-- Yeah. My little girl, um, she's off the track, so she's already got her confidence, and she's like, "Don't tell me what to do." So she's learning She's learning how to work as a team now

This is an interesting thing 'cause we were just talking about leadership. How has that influenced your, your own leadership? Well, like with her, w- uh, you know, it helps you be more intuitive with people. Um, and m- my son taught me this, too. It's like you can't control people. You can't control people. You can't make them do anything, but you can give them choices, you know?

And, or you can give them a scenario and let them work through it, and that's how, what you do with horses, too. You can't control a 1,200 or 1,500 pound horse, but you have to learn how to work, work together. And, and then same thing with my son. He, you know, if I told him he had to do something, he would butt heads with me, but if I gave him the choice, "Well, you can do this or you can do that," then he had a feeling of, oh, okay.

I get a choice in the matter. Right, and, and riding has done this. You know, riding, having a relationship with my horse has done the same thing, and that's the same thing with my students and my patients at the hospital. Now, how about, how about your Arbonne clients as well as you have people that work for you through Arbonne, too, correct?

I have some team... Yeah, I, team members. We work together as a team, so they have their own business alongside mine, and we work together. Um, but you know, the same thing. I, I got to be on a training call last night, and I just shared some of my, you know, some of my, my options as far as how you meet people and take an interest in people and, um, listen to them, see what they need, um, see what their problems are, and how you can help them out.

So, um, you know, and that's, that's very important. The same, you know, it's the, the same respect with my, my horses and my son and my students. You know, people are, are people, and they like to feel in control, but they like to be, feel supported, too, and listened to and valued.

That's a great point, and I just wanna highlight that is people wanna be heard. You know, part of, part of being valued is being heard. Having trained people for going on 30 years, you know, through-- 'cause I've always been doing experiential training for that pretty much better part of that time, is, uh, oftentimes people when they're listening, they listen not objectively.

They listen, you know, from a place of opinion or judgment or whatever it is, right? And then whoever they're listening to may not be feeling heard because of... And it goes back to that, what you had said earlier about, um, you can't control anybody. You can try. You know, it, it cracks me up when people wanna make other people accountable, and I'm like, "You wanna make someone else be accountable?

Why don't you be accountable first and foremost and demonstrate that?" But I think people, they wanna feel valued, they wanna feel heard, but the opportunity is to listen. I call it listening to the layers. There's many different aspects and attributes of human beings and what they're going through. And oftentimes people, they listen on one or two levels, then they-- And, and I'm guilty of it too.

I've done it before. I mean, I'm actually learning through my own experience, right? But they listen as if it's, "Do I agree?" Right? I mean, for, for 18 years, I, I did trainings around... We, we were training people around, uh, interviewing children for child sex abuse. And so it was, uh, it was how do you actually create an environment of truth, of support, of understanding?

Okay. Oftentimes, people were listening when I, when I would debrief them, with them after we went through the experience, when we would debrief with them. It was more of an exploration of how they were listening or how they weren't. And what I'll tell you is a lot of times they came in, they were very train- they were very well-trained oftentimes.

They, they were intelligent. They had intelligence. They cared. But what they didn't realize was they made it about them. They made it about their job, their case, what they were going to do, how they were going to save this child. And I, that's when I got really clear. I mean, after 18 years of doing this, I got really clear.

No, we don't need this, this concept of hero that gets so promoted and propagated out there in the world. Because the problem is, is when we pump out this illusion of hero, "Oh, they're a hero," and stuff like this, you look at someone who's truly, truly demonstrating characteristics of a hero, they're not focused on heroic, heroic anything.

They're focused on helping someone in a situation, some creature, some person, some... And they're responding. Yes. They are not there for a label. They're not there for edification. They're not there for, for someone to praise later on. They're there to, to help however they can in that moment. And then when that moment's done, it's like they're not there to benefit from that moment either.

Those-- That's a real hero But the problem is, is we've been using this and the media's been using this for so many decades now, this concept of hero. "Oh, they're a hero." And you look at people who genuinely, they, they just responded out of their heart, out of their essence, right? Yes. And so when we were training these, these forensic interviewers around the interviewing experience, some of them were very grateful when we h- when I highlighted for them that it was like they didn't know that they were making it about themselves.

And then some of them, I, I, I shared with them, I said, "If you were focused on just getting, on, on just creating a safe space so this child could communicate freely to say whatever they needed to say so that you could actually see, and you gathered all the information, all-- as much information as possible," 'cause the truth is you're not gonna gather all of it.

There's gonna be some that's missed. There's gonna be s- right? But what it came down to is some of the people were like they wanted to push back and be like, "Well, I needed this for the case," or, "I needed this," right? And I'm sitting here going, "If you only trusted," we're going back to our earlier conversation, "if you only trusted that if you created a space to gather as much vital information as possible, whether it was useful or not useful, if there was a rope to be weaved, it would weave itself."

You're not gonna weave it, but they would try it, and they would create it. And I'll tell you, there were times that they would create cases and ruin people's lives when it shouldn't have happened. But they, they did their job. They, they found their villain. I mean, how many times have, you know, has it happened where we've seen it?

"Oh, they got their guy. The police got their guy." And then it's like you find out five years, 10 years, 20 years later that no, they, they got the wrong guy. So the guy who actually did do whatever he did is still running free. And the whole purpose of me sharing this conversation is they were listening from a limited perspective.

They weren't looking at the layers, and they were listening for what they agreed, you know? Sometimes when we want- With the filter. Yes, the, all the filters. And the thing is, is it's like if someone wants to feel heard, it doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they say But you can be open to let the information still come.

And if we could just get more people-- And, and that's, you know, folks, we're not here to be on a soapbox or anything like this. We're here to just kinda continue to play with the possibility of how do we, for ourselves, hold ourselves in, in enough esteem to have self-love, to have care for others, to not always go to the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of need, where it's like it's basically just fear and psychological needs.

It's, it-- You know, what if we actually had self-actualization? What if we actually cared for our fellow human beings even if we didn't agree with them? What if we had that possibility? And that's what I love about what you-- having you on the show, Renee, is not only all of your, your breadth of life experience, but the life experience that you've had within your own, on your own path, you know, with the horses, with your respiratory patients, with, uh, independent entrepreneurs and business owners around Auburn.

You know, I mean... And that's just a few. You know, uh, with your family a-and the Army and traveling around the world. So as I ramble on here, what are your thought-- any thoughts about what I'm rambling on about? Absolutely, because I, I was just thinking that y-you know, you do need to be secure with yourself and to be open.

It, it, it's a growth thing. And to listen, listen without a filter, and that makes all the difference in the world with whether you're a teacher, whether you're, uh, in the hospital worker, whether you're a mom, whether you're a husband, whether you're a wife. Listen without that filter. Just listen. And y- and I love the fact that you said, yeah, and y- just because-- You don't have to agree with it, just listen.

I love what you're saying, but I'm gonna say one thing only because I know we're human beings, and the human beings that are out there are gonna be, like, going We always have filters, right? And so what I'll say is that, 'cause I'm, I'm right with you, right? If-- Shed all the filters if you can, but most people can't.

So what if your filter was just what's possible instead of what's right, what's wrong? I mean, people are, people are into this right and wrong kind of stuff, and I'm, like, going, either you haven't traveled the world enough, you haven't opened up to the fact that there's so many dynamic, different people in this world, that when you're, when you are so beaten down by yes, no, black and white, right or wrong, you have completely limited your ability to connect and engage with that special being across from you.

So I'm with you about if we can lose the filters, do it. But, I mean, that might be, that might be extra human to do that. Or- So maybe the filter of possibility ... yes, I was thinking lose the judgmental filter, like you were saying, it's right or it's wrong. But yeah, or the possibility of what's possible. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah. And, and it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. It's just l- learn about that information and, and know that sometimes you're going to be hooked. I mean, you know, just 'cause we're talking about these concepts, it doesn't mean that I don't-- When I'm driving down the road sometimes I'm not grumbling at people-

or I'm not hooked by someone or, you know. Yes. But then when I realize, it's like going, do I really wanna be caught up in a reactionary energy that somebody else is pulling my chain? You know, that's the one thing I wa-- If I wanna leave anything with the listeners today, when you are in a reaction about an engagement that you had with somebody, here's a secret, you may not like it.

They have the power over you, and they're pulling your chain until you actually let it go. Yep. 'Cause that's a reaction. It's not an action, it's a reaction. We are in power when we're in action. Absolutely, like what you just said. It's funny. I was thinking it's funny because a lot of times it's the people that you're closest to, your family, and that's even harder, but that's a good thing to remember is it's like they don't need to have power over me.

That's an interesting-- We were talking about filters a couple minutes ago. That's an interesting filter I've worked with clients on for years, which is, you know, the f- the family filter. And I'm, like, going, why is it that some fa- some people who use the family filter, it's like you allow the, the, your family to do more to you than you'd let a stranger do to you, right?

Like, like devalue you or, or not honor you or... And it's like going, you know, I, I've said to a number of clients over the years, "You know what? You may not be able to choose your family, but you can choose how to relate to your family." Yes. Right? It doesn't have to be a default that because they're family you have to take, you know, the derogatory or...

And then there's other families, it's great, you know. There, there's healthiness, there's lis- you know. But It d- it depends on who you are and where you are on your path for the individual Yes, and sometimes you outgrow your families a little bit and y- you need to know, you know, that that's what's happening too Oh, yeah.

You can, you can love them and, you know- Where they are ... let, let them be where they are. Yes. Yes. Opened a whole can of worms with that one, I know. That's what all of this is, but it's, um, it, it's a fun conversation. I mean, to-- That's what Powerful and Unpolished is really about. It's about having the conversations, not necessarily being right or wrong.

It's just about what's possible, and honestly, for the individual who's on their path, it's up to them to decide what's going to help them move forward, right? That's their learning opportunity. That's their... That's why sometimes some people who are really struggling today, and it can get really dark. I, I've worked with some really, really wonderful souls who have been in some dark places, and ironically, some of them, in just a matter of a few weeks or a few months, are in a whole different reality, and it's because they cut some of the ties that were actually keeping them in the darkness

We could keep talking. Uh, y- I, I enjoy- Yes ... connecting with you, Renee. Let's do this, though, for right now. We're, we're getting ready to wrap up this show, but I wanna sit here and say, so Renee, you have a couple offers. So tell our listeners how they can best get ahold of you and what, you know, what a couple of your offers are that you wanted them to have from today's conversation.

Okay. The best way to get, um, ahold of me is, um, by, uh, email. My email is R-E-N-E-E-O-C-H-S-N-E-R @gmail.com And I have got a f- a free 30-minute, um, discovery call that's available, and we can talk about some of your health goals, some of your life goals, things like that, and some, um, ways to be able to a- approach them.

Then I also have a free wellness, um, form. Um, if you email me at that same email, I'll send that wellness form to you, and we can take a look at it and see what we can do as far as come up with some of your little problem, problem areas and see how we can tweak that. So again, my email is R-E-N-E-E-O-C-H-S-N-E-R @gmail.com.

And just so you know, we will, uh, for the listeners, in the description of this episode, we will put in the contact information, and I believe we have the links for the, the free wellness survey as well as the 30-minute discovery call. So we will put that in there, too. Okay. This has been fun. Thank you so much, Timothy.

Thank you. Yeah, well, you're welcome. Um, it's been a real pleasure for me. I just wanna say to the listeners out there, uh, you know, this is our-- this is Powerful and Unpolished. I never know where it's gonna go. I love the people that I have on the show because they're divine souls, a-and Renee has just been so wonderful today.

Again, this, our show, Powerful and Unpolished, is sponsored and hosted by Insights for Choice. You know, we go inside, we do the search, we do the work. Once we find out what's, what our own personal insights are, not necessarily what someone else lays on to us, but that we actually discover for ourselves, that when we actually discover our own insights, it empowers our own choice.

It helps us to be in the creative process of whatever our path is as we move forward. So I wanna say thank you to, you know, Insights for Choice for hosting Powerful and Unpolished. I wanna thank Renee Ochsner for being a wonderful guest today. Maybe we'll have her on again here in the future, which will be fun.

And, um, until then, we always wish you all the best. Keep looking for the possibility that's out there. Keep recognizing how can-- you can show up for yourself on a stronger, more honoring way for who you are, and there's so many ways to do that. So if you have any questions, reach out to us. Um, the information will be in, in the details here.

But until next time, wanna wish you all the best. Cheers.